thirdgen's massive F4i rebuild thread.... pix intense!!

[thirdgenlxi]

Well... I just uploaded 265 pictures to photobucket, won't be posting every one of them, but just be warned.... this is gonna be a looooong thread with ALOT of pictures!! LOL

Anyways, some may remember I went down back in Dec and the whole ordeal that followed. For those that don't.... back on Dec 17th I was on my way to work and while veering off on a road to the left, I hit a patch of oil/diesel fuel/antifreeze/something slippery, and lowsided at about 25 mph. All was fine until the bike slid into the curb, did a little highside and then rolled over itself into the grass. I got right up, not even so much as a scratch on me, thank god (leathers FTMFW!!), went over to the bike and it was completely covered in engine oil. Not a good sign already!

Luckily another guy from work was several cars behind me when this happened, so he saw it and recognized it as being me, and pulled right into the parking lot there and made sure I was OK. Luckily he had his pickup and an empty bed, so we lifted the bike into the bed of his truck and off to work we went

He gave me a ride home after work and we unloaded the bike into the garage. I was able to get a little better analysis of the damages

Right side didn't really get much at all

Swingarm got gouged up pretty good

Now for the really bad part.... when it slid, the flywheel took a hard and direct hit with the curb

Took a good size chunk out of the lower crankcase

All that was left of my stator cover

Definitely not a good sign there!

A couple weeks later, after much persuasion with a pry bar I was able to get the mangled stator out of the flywheel. Thanks to a generous member of 600rr.net for loaning me the OEM flywheel puller tool, I was finally able to remove the flywheel and inspect behind it. I was quite sad with what I found

Crank was definitely bent

The crack in the case was also worse that I had originally seen

Several weeks went by waiting for the insurance adjuster to come out to the house and look at it. I already knew they were gonna total it, but it was pretty much my only option at this point. They finally came out and looked at it, then had to wait another couple of weeks for them to process everything. Contrary to everyone else telling me "don't bother, it's not worth anything anyways", I'm glad I didn't listen, cuz the insurance company thought otherwise. They valued the bike at $4400, subtract $500 deductible and we're at $3900.... then the buy back was $600, and I went ahead and did just that. So I kept the bike, and got a check for $3300. For a bike with 177k miles on it, can't really complain at all

I was in the process of moving at the time, so I didn't really have much of any time to work on it, plus I didn't want to tear it apart before I moved, then end up having to move it in pieces and loosing stuff. I moved the bike over to my new residence and it sat there for another couple of weeks. My buddy Matt's boss down in Greenville, SC is an engineer with a full machine shop, CNC machines, welders, lathes, etc. He said he might be able to fix it, so he said bring it on down and we'll tear it open and have a look

Finally by the end of Feb, I was settled into my new place and had some time to work on the bike. I quickly got to work tearing it down

Rafters and ratchet straps are a godsend!!

And milk crates too, hahah

Had the engine out shortly after

After 177k miles, she's a little dirty, as one might imagine

Wasn't much left of her after that

Oh and around this time, I came across this little gem on ebay so I picked it up for a steal ($300 for both). I asked the guys in the body shop at my work if they could paint it up and fix a small crack, and they said sure, so I dropped it off ever there. Also took my tail section which had a few scratches and cracks, and a few other goodies I bought as well (you'll see those at the end)

So in March our schedules finally work out and I take it down to Greenville, SC and have my buddies boss take a look. We start tearing the engine open. Nothing has been cleaned in these pics, it's exactly as we tore it apart

Remove the cyl head (first time ever been off).... pistons have a little carbon buildup, but nothing major

Flip it upside down and remove the oil pan so we can split the cases

Engine is spotless inside

Lower crankcase removed

Crank journals and bearings still looked brand new

We pull the crankshaft out, and sure enough, just as we thought. Bent beyond any conceivable repair

The case was severely cracked under the end crank journal bearing

So.... I wasn't too happy at this point. This was the last little bit of hope I was hanging onto to possibly fix my original engine. But, not gonna happen. I gave it some thought, and pretty much my only option at this point was another engine. The timing could not have been better, as I quickly went on ebay and found a 2004 F4i engine with 15,000 miles. It was at $200 with no reserve, only catch was he wouldn't ship it, pick up only in Atlanta, GA. I watched the auction like a hawk, nobody was bidding on it for several days so I thought I was in the clear. I sit there and watch it in the final several minutes, and lets just say I won the auction in a furious snipe at about 5 sec remaining, outbidding someone else who had the same idea, hahaha. Ended up getting it for $256.... hell of a deal!

So that weekend I hop in the trusty Accord and make my way down to Atlanta, GA from Asheville, NC

[thirdgenlxi]

Getting closer!

As I'm approaching Atlanta, I tighten my seatbelt and say a little prayer for my life as I merge onto, what I always appropriately like to call, the "I-285 GP". Wow..... I was quickly reminded just why I hate driving in Atlanta....ever!!

I make my way into the city, where I'd meet up with a guy named Sean. We met up at the Cycle Gear since we both knew right where it was

Picked up the engine and stuffed it in my trunk, right next to my old engine

Went over to my buddy Kevin's house north of Atlanta where I'd crash for the night. We took the new engine out and did a valve check on it just to see where it was at, and how it looked

Had 2 valves that were slightly out of spec. One was loose, one was tight, so we were able to swap shims and got both in spec. Everything else looked pretty good, and clean

The next night I make my way back home to Asheville, NC, driving through some of the worst rain I've driven through in YEARS, might I add, lol. On the nice 5 hour drive home I gave the whole situation lots of thought. Me being the stubborn SOB that I am, still wasn't truly happy with just replacing the engine. I kept thinking...there's GOTTA be a way to keep at least part of it original. Then... DUH.... *lightbulb*

So I took the new engine into work the next morning

I needed to take the clutch out anyways to swap my Factory Pro shift star and detent spring I had put in mine awhile back

Got the clutch out, and wasn't too happy with what I saw. Had some pretty good bluing and burn marks on the clutch plates, as well as some pretty deep grooves in the ears on the inner and outer clutch baskets. RED FLAG!!

Now that my suspicions are raised, I keep digging a little further. By now my decision was pretty much made up as to just what I was gonna do

About the same amount of carbon buildup on the pistons as mine had.... not too bad

Split the cases and take a look inside. Overall it was clean and didn't look too bad. Some of the edges of the gear dogs in the transmission had some wear

Numbered the pistons on the new engine and popped them out

Within an hour or so, had the new engine town down to nothing but a bare block

Then I brought out my original engine and started to tear it fully down

My cylinder head had a little carbon as well, but overall not bad at all.... all valves and seats were in great shape

Stripped it down to the bare block as well

Now here's the pretty amazing part.... hard to see in the pics, but believe it or not, after 177,428 miles, all 4 cylinder walls still have PERFECT crosshatch. No joke!

Crank bearings.... perfect

Here's a better pic of the crack in the block. It took a smack for sure!

Bent crank

It bent so much that it actually squished and buckled the metal on the one side...

...And stretched it on the other side

As for the crank journals themselves... perfect

Time to start assembling the "new" engine. I hone out the cylinders real good on the new block to deglaze them

Now here's another little interesting tidbit. I start measuring ring gap, and I'm curious how my 177k mile engine compares to this 15k mile engine (which I now believe was run a bit hard). The service limit on the upper ring is 0.40mm. So using cylinder 1 in the new block, I take the upper ring from both cylinder 1 pistons of the new engine and my old engine. The ring from the new engine is right at the 0.40mm service limit. My 177k mile ring measured 0.27mm. Yea..... figure that one out!

[thirdgenlxi]

Used a brass scraper to clean the surface of the block up

After cleaning the carbon off the pistons and making sure the ring grooves are nice and clean, gotta index the rings before reinstalling each piston (each ring gap has to be facing a certain way)

Install each piston

Use lots of this stuff!!

My original rod bearings.... perfect

After several gradual steps, make my way to 19 lb.ft on the rod caps

Hard to see in the pics, but the lighter color timing chain guide on the left has more wear than the one on the right. One on the left is out of the 15k mile engine, one on the right is my original. I put my original back in

Finally installed the new timing chain that I've had sitting in my toolbox since.... 2005?? LOL

Used my original oil pump

Installed oil pump and my Factory Pro roller bearing detent spring

Installed my original shift drum with the Factory Pro shift star

My shift forks were still in perfect shape, so reused those too

Can't forget the oil control orifices! That would be a very bad thing to leave out

Bottom end... complete!

After applying some assembly lube on all the crank bearings, install the lower crankcase

Torque all case bolts down to spec

Install oil pick-up and pressure release valve

Oil pan

Flip over and install oil cooler

Install shift shaft

Oil pump drive chain and sprockets

Install the outer clutch basket

Then the inner hub, then tighten the nut (94 lb. ft = FUN when the engine is out, lol)

My original (yes 177k mile original) clutch was still in great shape, so I reused it

Coat all the clutch friction and steel plates with clean engine oil before install

Install clutch pressure plate and springs, tighten to 9 lb.ft

Time to button up the top end

Cleaned the carbon off my original head and it cleaned up nicely

Easy does it when it comes to torquing a head. Lots of small increments is my preferred method

Final torque of 35 lb. ft (much better than the 245 lb. ft for the ARP head studs I usually do on the diesels, lol)

Install exhaust camshaft and line up timing marks

Install intake camshaft and line up timing marks

Gotta torque the cam hold down plate in the EXACT sequence numbered on the plate

Rotate the engine slowly by hand to make sure no problems, then recheck timing to make sure it's dead on

And at the crank too

Looking like an engine again!

Do a quick compression test just to make sure no major problems. Not perfect, but for an engine that is cold (supposed to do it warm) and hasn't run yet, that's still pretty damn good

Install spark plugs

Reused my original water pump

The stator cover that came on the new engine had some rash, so I sanded it down to remove the scratches

Then just painted it flat black with some hi-temp paint

Install the stator back in the cover

Install the stator and cover, valve cover, and thermostat housing and hoses, and she's complete, ready to go back in!

So I hung the ratchet straps from the rafters once again, and wheeled the bike into position

Get the engine into position

Slowly lower the frame down onto the engine

Annnnd.... she's in!

[thirdgenlxi]

Gotta tighten the engine mount bolts in a certain sequence to center the engine, then use the special tool to tighten the adjuster lock nuts on the right side

Install the radiator

Tighten all coolant hose clamps

Attach clutch cable

Fill it up with quality cooling juices

Never forget the lube

Double check level.... it takes a little more oil after a major surgery

By this point, the anticipation was absolutely KILLING me!! For the past 4 months, all I wanted to do was hear her run again. Cosmetics or anything else I wasn't worried about, I just wanted to hear her run. So I stopped there, made sure I had everything connected engine wise, bolted the exhaust on, and stuck the gas tank on. Had a gas can with a little bit of gas in it so I poured a little bit in the tank. I was just saying a prayer.... pleeeeeease start up, please start up! There were so many things running through my mind... "did I tighten that?".... "Did I remember to put that piece in?".... "Did I leave anything loose?"..... "I did put oil in right?"..... "What if it doesn't start?". Seriously all the "what if's" running through my mind at 100 mph. But, I connect the battery and all the lights come on and the fuel pump primes. I switch it off and on several times to fill up the lines with fuel. I had my fingers crossed and made this video..... it is indeed the very first attempt to start it. Watch and see!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovbu0W2hJ6o

WoooooooooHooooooo!! Success!! Seriously, words can't describe how happy I was to hear her start right up and run.... perfectly. Both a huge sigh of relief, as well as a huge feeling of accomplishment, I was almost crying happy tears just to hear her run again, and something I assembled piece by piece with my own two hands. It's a feeling like no other!

So.... after she was running like a champ, I moved on to other stuff. Remember the swingarm that was all rashed up??

I sanded it down with my whiz wheel (same as the stator cover). It slowly shaves the metal down and removes the scratches little by little until they're gone

I then used some Mothers metal polish and an orbital buffer to smooth it down to a nice shine

I then used course steel wool and hand sanded for about 3 hours, slowly removing any little scratches from the sanding, and giving it that brushed aluminum finish that was on it originally

It turned out pretty damn good if I do say so myself!

There's still a small bit of rash at the very bottom.... it was too deep I'd have to sand too much. It's alot better than it was though

Apply several coats of commercial grade clear coat to protect the metal

Install the swingarm on the bike

Hey sometimes you gotta get creative when you don't have a big enough hex bit, haha

Hey whatever works, right??

After centering the swingarm, use the special tool to tighten the adjuster lock nuts

And of course the pivot bolt

Install rear wheel and rear brake caliper

OMG... starting to look like a bike again!

My fairing stay was tweaked just a little bit, mostly on the left side

So I replaced that too

Now.... my plastics!! I got them back from the body shop, and they turned out fantastic! They repaired the small crack in the upper fairing, fixed some rash and cracks in the tail fairing, and fixed a big rock chip in the hugger, then painted them all black. The headlight had a tiny scratch so he sanded that down and got it nice and clear again. Solo seat cowl was red prior, they painted that black too. All of this cost me.... nothing. I tried to pay them, they don't take it, not even for paint. Good thing for having buddies in the body shop who are also riders themselves, huh?? LOL

Got my HID bulbs and Proton flushies transferred over to the new headlight

[thirdgenlxi]

Front and side fairings installed

Tail installed

Well... she's back together!! Only things I was missing here were my Puig DB windscreen and the left side fairing. Waiting for both of them to arrive in the mail, but damn it I wanted to go ride! Still had my stock windscreen so I put that on, and everything was tight enough without the left side fairing, so screw it, lol. So... Sat April 3rd around 5pm or so, letting her warm up, about to go take our maiden voyage!

Rode around town staying close to home just to be safe, incase anything went wrong. Everything was perfect though.... temp was staying where it should, plenty of power, everything was smooth and crisp, no vibrations... nothing. So I get on the highway for a short bit...all good there! Make my way up to the Blue Ridge Parkway. Made a quick video just to show how good she's running. Ended up logging 110 miles before the night was over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV5PZFNPAj4

Several days later my windscreen and left fairing show up in the mail

I've always been one for a clean stock look, so I put the decals back on (still waiting on the ones for the front upper... they were on backorder)

So today I had everything all done and got her all cleaned up. I took her up to that special place up on the BRP for some quality pix. Here's the ending result of my past 4 months of work

I still need to get a 'new' left side fairing... this was just a cheapo ebay one to cover it up for now. Couldn't spend the $400 right now, ugh

I'm damn proud of how well the swingarm came out, hahah

New rear hugger.... been wanting one of these forever

The wreck happened at exactly 177,428 miles..... been riding her for about 5.5 days now and logged exactly 951 miles. Still running absolutely perfect, and haven't had a single problem! First full tank of fuel I burned through I got 42.87 MPG, so I would venture to say she's running pretty good!

And last but not least..... one INCREDIBLY happy thirdgenlxi

Phew.... that's all the pics! Thank god, I've been typing this for about 5 hours now, and really getting a headache, lol. But yea, everything ended up working out in the end, and I'm just happy to have my baby back, and still running on about 95% of her original engine. I swapped EVERYTHING from my old engine to the new block, everything down to the neutral indicator switch, oil pressure sensor, and thermostat housing. Only parts used from the new engine were the block, crank and crank bearings, and starter (mine started giving probs after I took it out). Every other part in or on the engine.... original. It may not be 100% anymore like it was, but hey, given the situation I think it's the best solution I had to keep her as original as I possibly could. And it worked! And for all the people that kept telling me it wasn't worth it, and it was gonna cost more to fix it than it would be to buy a new bike, hear this: Grand total for EVERYTHING I did was right at $1100. I used the remaining $2200 to pay off a $2200 credit card debt that's been hanging over my head for waaaayyyy too long now, so it's completely gone. So now I have MY bike back, and no debt at all.... I think I like my way of handling this situation a little better than alot of the responses I got, lol. Plus I've got a box full of engine parts to sell, maybe make a few bucks back!

Anyways, hope you all enjoyed the pics! Sorry if I made your computer crash. Roadtrip pics will be soon to follow!

[Ryan_c_F]

GodDAMN!

Nice rebuild! Seems like a paltry compliment after such an incredibly detailed journey you just took me on, but that's good, good work, sir. Looks phenomenal.

[jessecwalters]

Damn, looks brand fucking new to me. Nice Job man

[jessecwalters]

oh, and how long did it take you to post all this stuff?

[Sniper_308]

Nice work!

[ShankroidBeast]

HOLY CRAP!!!!! That was some impressive shit and I enjoyed all the eye candy pictures! She will be hitting that 200k mark and beyond now!!!

And what a feeling of satisfaction you must have of doing it yourself. Great job!!!

[Hailwood]

Excellent thread.

Glad to see you got her not only running, but looking pretty again.

[NinjaNick]

oh, and how long did it take you to post all this stuff?

A little over 5 hours.

Phew.... that's all the pics! Thank god, I've been typing this for about 5 hours now, and really getting a headache, lol.

Thirdgenlxi - You are my motorcycle hero! That was an awesome story to read. Thank you for sharing. I just spent about 30 mins of my morning enjoying every bit of it. Thanks for letting me in the shop with you for those 30 minutes. It was awesome! I respect and admire you for what you did to that bike. Your skills are a sight to see. Enjoy the new ride.

[jblosser]

:bow:

Very nice work sir, very nice indeed.

[twisted12]

Nice work wow thats alot of pics.

[adamgh81]

Jared, you may eventually get a new bike, but you will NEVER get rid of this machine! Simply awesome man!

[jporter12]

Wow! I had been waiting to read this! I saw the video you had posted on FB of the first startup, and from then I was wondering about the details!

This gives me some inspiration to get my VF500F back together. I REALLY need to find some new valves.

[crf69]

Third gen is the man......i have been following him on the 1000rr.net site.......i wish i had the time to ride as much as he does.......he is forfilling a dream.......the open rode on a honda cbr!!!! great job man suck the 177,000 mile'r went down......i was curious as to how long that thing would really go because i was shocked when you posted up the 150,000 mile mark on 1000rr.net.........i think you should be able to do the same with this engine because it's a HONDA RIDE RED!!!!!!!! (even tho mines silver lol)

[Likwid]

I'm curious how much the rebuild costs?

Absolutely amazing rebuild bro.

[exSRAaron]

Very impressive! Glad to see some of the original parts back on it! Good work sir

[dmagicglock]

this is one of those epic threads, hats off to you sir! thanks for sharing and taking the time to post all of that.

[juliejuliejulie]

Dude, Vinny sent me an email at 1:11am with the subject line "Jared is a God" lol.. you rock man. come back to visit soon!! I'm so happy to see that you brought her back to life!!

[NinjaNick]

I'm curious how much the rebuild costs?

Absolutely amazing rebuild bro.

I think 2 now, JesseCWalters and Likwid, didn't read the thread before they asked questions. He stated all in all it costs him only $1100.

See bolded:

And for all the people that kept telling me it wasn't worth it, and it was gonna cost more to fix it than it would be to buy a new bike, hear this: Grand total for EVERYTHING I did was right at $1100. I used the remaining $2200 to pay off a $2200 credit card debt that's been hanging over my head for waaaayyyy too long now, so it's completely gone. So now I have MY bike back, and no debt at all.... I think I like my way of handling this situation a little better than alot of the responses I got, lol. Plus I've got a box full of engine parts to sell, maybe make a few bucks back!

Edited April 10, 2010 by NinjaNick

[granda080]

Dude looks great!!! Absolutely amazing. One thing...its still an f4i j/k

Awesome job

[jporter12]

Most excellent! She looks great. I have to ask' date=' since her internals were in such good condition, do you always use the Rotella 15w? I don't need to read another oil thread for the rest of my life. I'm just going to switch to whatever it is you've been using and stick with that.[/quote']

If I had to guess, the Rotella was for break-in, which is the same thing I use often for a break-in oil, especially if an engine has a flat tappet camshaft.

On a bike, one of the big advanges of 15w40 oil has to do with the amounts of friction modifiers in it. The geartrain is hard on these components in the oil, and something that has to multiply by about 2.5 as in 15w40, compared to 4 for a 10w40 is likely to protect better, for longer. This is all from what I have read about oils, btw... I'm not a chemical enginerd or anything like that.

I think 2 now, JesseCWalters and Likwid, didn't read the thread before they asked questions. He stated all in all it costs him only $1100.

See bolded:

I call lazy, at least on Likwid, seeing his history of doing this.....

[r1crusher]

Nice rebuild! I am curious on one thing though, why put the old plugs back in? I mean I understand about saving a few bucks but nothing like an old fouled plug to keep your freshly rebuilt engine from starting or running properly.