State of the Union Address - Drinking Game

[InyaAzz]

Here's the bill

http://help.senate.gov/BAI09A84_xml.pdf

Oh I already read section 3116. That's what I was basing my comments on.

Did you? Because if you had, you would see that no where in there are federal employees EXEMPT from this healthcare.

[jporter12]

Keep coming up with opinions and not facts.

It doesn't matter, as we ignore facts....

[chevysoldier]

He's just slow.

You have opinions too now JRMiii2 huh?

[InyaAzz]

Keep coming up with opinions and not facts.

You're doing this to yourself at this point. Here you go:

‘‘(5) QUALIFIED INDIVIDUAL.—

23 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘qualified

24 individual’ means an individual who is—

114

O:\BAI\BAI09A84.xml [file 1 of 6] S.L.C.

1 ‘‘(i) residing in a participating State

2 or an establishing State (as defined in sec3

tion 3104);

4 ‘‘(ii) not incarcerated;

5 ‘‘(iii) not entitled to coverage under

6 the Medicare program under part A of title

7 XVIII of the Social Security Act;

8 ‘‘(iv) not enrolled in coverage under

9 the Medicare program under part B of title

10 XVIII of the Social Security Act or under

11 part C of such title; and

12 ‘‘(v) not eligible for coverage under—

13 ‘‘(I) the Medicaid program under

14 a State plan under title XIX of the

15 Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1396

16 et seq.), or under a waiver under sec17

tion 1115 of such Act;

18 ‘‘(II) the TRICARE program

19 under chapter 55 of title 10, United

20 States Code (as defined in section

21 1072(7) of such title);

22 ‘‘(III) the Federal employees

23 health benefits program under chapter

24 89 of title 5, United States Code; or

115

O:\BAI\BAI09A84.xml [file 1 of 6] S.L.C.

1 ‘‘(IV) employer-sponsored cov2

erage (except as provided under sub3

paragraph (B)).

[chevysoldier]

Oh I already read section 3116. That's what I was basing my comments on.

Did you? Because if you had, you would see that no where in there are federal employees EXEMPT from this healthcare.

They are not being forced to have a plan that they may not want, because the government health care is pre approved.

[InyaAzz]

they are not being forced to have a plan that they may not want, because the government health care is pre approved.

and so is everyone in america who has health insurance!!!

Omg

[chevysoldier]

and so is everyone in america who has health insurance!!!

Omg

I don't want healthcare. But by this bill, I am made to have it.

[jporter12]

On this whole healthcare reform issue, I don't think government intervention the way they're attempting to get it done, is not the answer. Providing coverage and making it affordable is what I keep hearing. Instead of trying to subsidize (sp?) it, why not take away from the rich (doctors, surgeons, etc.) to make it more affordable? Make them drop their rates. I find it appalling that almost every EOB and bill I get has an adjustment where the insurance company has negotiated a lower price. I'm not going to blame one specific healthcare provider, but that's just how the industry operates. Can you or I call up the doctor or hospital and negotiate a better rate, if we're not covered, or self insured?

Edited January 28, 2010 by jporter12
Spelling

[InyaAzz]

I don't want healthcare. But by this bill, I am made to have it.

Have you been drinking? Am I carrying on a conversation with a drug addict?

You present your 'facts', they get shot down or you totally refuse to acknowledge you were wrong, and then you just switch to something else like nothing happened.

Have fun with that.

[jporter12]

You have opinions too now JRMiii2 huh?

Nope, just the facts man....

[Disclaimer]

See, you can't find something in the bill to hold up your story. "the". Mature.

The 'the' was just goofin' around, but you don't really make it that difficult of a challenge. From the 615pg PDF you posted.

Page 43

‘‘(1) VOLUNTARY NATURE OF GATEWAY.—

2 ‘‘(A) CHOICE TO ENROLL OR NOT TO EN3

ROLL.—A qualified individual shall have the

4 choice to enroll or not to enroll in a qualified

5 health plan or to participate in a Gateway."

Page 55-56

"12 ‘‘(k) EMPOWERING CONSUMER CHOICE.—

13 ‘‘(1) CONTINUED OPERATION OF MARKET OUT

14 SIDE GATEWAYS.—Nothing in this title shall be con

15 strued to prohibit a health insurance issuer from of

16 fering a health insurance policy or providing cov

17 erage under such policy to a qualified individual

18 where such policy is not a qualified health plan.

19 ‘‘(2) CONSUMER CHOICE OF PLAN.—Nothing in

20 this title shall be construed to prohibit a qualified

21 individual from enrolling in a health insurance plan

22 where such plan is not a qualified health plan.

23 ‘‘(3) CONTINUED OPERATED OF STATE BEN

24 EFIT REQUIREMENTS.—Nothing in this title shall be

25 construed to terminate, abridge, or limit the oper-

1 ation of any requirement under State law with re

2 spect to any policy or plan that is not a qualified

3 health plan to offer benefits required under State

4 law."

I don't think I need to go through the rest... if you want to read all pertinent information, just search the term 'qualified' and you'll find 163 instances of that term in the document.

Anything else you want me to read for you?

Edited January 28, 2010 by JRMMiii

[fusion]

Can you or I call up the doctor or hospital and negotiate a better rate, if we're not covered, or self insured?

Yes.

[chevysoldier]

ME:

they are not being forced to have a plan that they may not want, because the government health care is pre approved.

You: and so is everyone in america who has health insurance!!!

Have you been drinking? Am I carrying on a conversation with a drug addict?

You present your 'facts', they get shot down or you totally refuse to acknowledge you were wrong, and then you just switch to something else like nothing happened.

Have fun with that.

if I don't have healthcare (not approved), and I don't want it, I will be forced to get it.

I didn't switch anything.

[InyaAzz]

if I don't have healthcare (not approved), and I don't want it, I will be forced to get it.

I didn't switch anything.

Please show me where your health plan needs to be 'approved'.

[jporter12]

Can you or I call up the doctor or hospital and negotiate a better rate, if we're not covered, or self insured?

Yes.

But, will it be as good of a rate as a company that's going to be paying thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills all at once?

BTW, I KNEW that individuals could negotiate. I haven't needed to, but have talked to family members that have done so for stuff that's not covered very well, such as vision care.

[InyaAzz]

if I don't have healthcare (not approved), and I don't want it, I will be forced to get it.

I didn't switch anything.

My statement ..and the quote I provided earlier from the bill YOU posted, was meant to show you that ANYONE WHO IS CURRENTLY COVERED CAN KEEP THEIR PLAN. There is no 'APPROVAL' process.

[Disclaimer]

But, will it be as good of a rate as a company that's going to be paying thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills all at once?

That's kinda the point of having an HMO, insurance pool, or single-payer system... the buying power simplifies negotiations and puts the power back with the consumer, not the insurer/provider.

[Uncle Punk]

What's the point of penalizing "Cadillac" healthcare plans? Do we want to punish people for being successful? Tax them out of affordable healthcare to share the misery of the utopia that would be the plan for the masses.

[Disclaimer]

I want to go to bed, but I'm waiting for chevy to admit he's wrong.

I'll go grab my coffee.

[jporter12]

That's kinda the point of having an HMO, insurance pool, or single-payer system... the buying power simplifies negotiations and puts the power back with the consumer, not the insurer/provider.

But it's a vicious cycle, they just raise the rates to SHOW that they're giving a break, and therefore making the same amount as before.

It's all about marketing....

[jporter12]

I want to go to bed, but I'm waiting for chevy to admit he's wrong.

I'll go grab my coffee.

Better get some 5 hour energy, too. Maybe a few of them!

For the record, he's not totally wrong or right, but I haven't read enough of it actually cite quotes to prove my thinking on that.

[InyaAzz]

What's the point of penalizing "Cadillac" healthcare plans? Do we want to punish people for being successful? Tax them out of affordable healthcare to share the misery of the utopia that would be the plan for the masses.

Good question. I don't know. I don't know enough about these bill to form much of an opinion. I'd like to hear the answer to your question though.

My spiel in this thread has been because of the uninformed 'opinions'...not based on any facts what-so-ever. If Obama's plan stinks, let it stink based on the facts, not because of some shit cooked up on a blog or an email.

[Disclaimer]

What's the point of penalizing "Cadillac" healthcare plans? Do we want to punish people for being successful? Tax them out of affordable healthcare to share the misery of the utopia that would be the plan for the masses.

Everyone raise their hand if they have a "Cadillac" plan.

Now keep your hand up if you actually make enough money to be a Republican - a part of the upper echelons of society - to legitimately be able to bitch about supporting the masses.

Ya know, since I'm banking that most people on this board probably don't have personal incomes greater than $250k/yr - they would be considered 'the masses'.

Edited January 28, 2010 by JRMMiii

[Fonzie]

Seriously, if any of you REALLY believe there will be a true war on American soil in the next 10 years you MAY be more retarded than I thought.

True war, not war on terrorism or drugs

No ground war.... Just China downgrading our credit rating & increasing our interest rate. They'll be over shortly thereafter to occupy their newest territory. Our produced goods will now be stamped "Made in Republic of Taiwan II/C.U.S.A"

No, you're absolutely right, you can bash whatever whenever... but, I'll pull out my Republican playbook and call you unpatriotic for doing so... that's what it was for the last 8 years when the 'liberals' bashed Bushie, right?

I dont' blame you guys for your cynicism or apathy, I can understand after 8 years of swallowing the turds Bush was feeding you, you got used to the taste and are upset now that your diet has changed.

Wrong.... It's the same crap.... Just coming from a different hand now Justin

You're naive to be getting so worked up just 'cause everyone's pickin' on your boy BoBo, though I know you're probably feeling a bit overprotective since you just camped out for hours last week to drink his Jim Jones Juice in person. Now that I think about it though.... This IS the first time you've had one of your boys in office giving the SoUA since you've been allowed to vote

These State of the Union speeches are never anything more than regurgitations of all the lies they told & sold us on the campaign trail. Keep repeating it 'til the gullible masses believe

And all you guys' citing of the Health Care Reform Bill aside..... 60 Minutes IIRC did a bit several months ago on how Congress has a "Special" doctor right downstairs (Can't remember what his uber ghey, super special title is), who all they have to do is walk in, and they can immediately get MRI's, EKG's, x-rays & the like... Whatever he deems necessary as part of their visit & his workup..... AT NO COST TO THEM

Guess who foots the bill for that/their compensation package?? Don't know about you... But my doctor expects to be paid whenever he sees me, and I certainly don't just walk right in, or expect anything more than an initial consultation

Where's Fonz with his pissing match "smiley".....

One of these???

Edited January 28, 2010 by Fonzie

[InyaAzz]

Better get some 5 hour energy, too. Maybe a few of them!

For the record, he's not totally wrong or right, but I haven't read enough of it actually cite quotes to prove my thinking on that.

How is he NOT wrong when saying federal employees are exempt from this coverage? I quoted an excerpt from the bill...the VERY SAME SECTION HE SAYS GIVES FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AN EXEMPTION...I quoted the exact section where it defines who is eligible. It clearly states anyone who is NOT on Medicare AND covered under an employer's plan..EVEN IF IT'S A FEDERAL PLAN, is eligible for this coverage.