Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

[chevysoldier]

When was the last time your house was attacked by a bear? Apparently your mailbox must be a magical 'bearcrow'

Thats it, cant come back with anything useful, make some silly stuff up.

[ReconRat]

When was the last time your house was attacked by a bear? Apparently your mailbox must be a magical 'bearcrow'

hahah, careful what you wish for. Bear are moving back into Ohio from Pennsylvania.

[Disclaimer]

Sorry that went over your heads. This may clear up my 'bearcrow mailbox' silliness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2zXSaDFi7o

Logic 201: Specious Reasoning

[jporter12]

Sorry that went over your heads. This may clear up my 'bearcrow mailbox' silliness.

YouTube- Specious Reasoning Example

Logic 201: Specious Reasoning

No, no need to explain.

Some people just don't get it.

[alab32]

No, no need to explain.

Some people just don't get it.

Very true... some people dont, and NEVER will.

[chevysoldier]

Sorry that went over your heads. This may clear up my 'bearcrow mailbox' silliness.

YouTube- Specious Reasoning Example

Logic 201: Specious Reasoning

Seriously?? You truly believe that the men and women over there have no bearing whatsoever on your way of life here? You have yet to comeback with anything of value to challenge my last few comments? Just a video of a rock, yeah thats intelligence right there.

[Disclaimer]

Seriously?? You truly believe that the men and women over there have no bearing whatsoever on your way of life here? You have yet to comeback with anything of value to challenge my last few comments? Just a video of a rock, yeah thats intelligence right there.

You keep trying to paint this portrait that I'm somehow anti-soldier. And it's not true. I'm just as appreciative as everyone else. The troops just do what they're told without question - and do it well.

It's the 'management' I doubt. And if all you got from that video was 'a rock' then I don't really know any other way to explain it to you.

[chevysoldier]

You keep trying to paint this portrait that I'm somehow anti-soldier. And it's not true. I'm just as appreciative as everyone else. The troops just do what they're told without question - and do it well.

It's the 'management' I doubt. And if all you got from that video was 'a rock' then I don't really know any other way to explain it to you.

Okay, you don't think the soldiers deserve a bonus becuase they know about the pay beforehand. You don't think they keep the terrorists in check over there so we don't have to fight them here. You feel it's okay to add to the debt and afford him rights with a trial in NYC. You compare a rock keeping tigers away just because "I say it does that" to soldiers keeping terrorists away even though it has been proven to do so. And this is the first time you have said anything about management who, by the way in case you didn't realize, is Obama at the top of that. The guy you so believe in.

Left turn, left turn, left turn, left turn

[alab32]

Okay, you don't think the soldiers deserve a bonus becuase they know about the pay beforehand. You don't think they keep the terrorists in check over there so we don't have to fight them here. You feel it's okay to add to the debt and afford him rights with a trial in NYC. You compare a rock keeping tigers away just because "I say it does that" to soldiers keeping terrorists away even though it has been proven to do so. And this is the first time you have said anything about management who, by the way in case you didn't realize, is Obama at the top of that. The guy you so believe in.

Left turn, left turn, left turn, left turn

More or that heroism i was talking about. I think im getting a mancrush.

Just kidding... but really... youre awesome!

[Disclaimer]

Okay, you don't think the soldiers deserve a bonus becuase they know about the pay beforehand. You don't think they keep the terrorists in check over there so we don't have to fight them here. You feel it's okay to add to the debt and afford him rights with a trial in NYC. You compare a rock keeping tigers away just because "I say it does that" to soldiers keeping terrorists away even though it has been proven to do so. And this is the first time you have said anything about management who, by the way in case you didn't realize, is Obama at the top of that. The guy you so believe in.

Left turn, left turn, left turn, left turn

Let me break this down for you. Again... slowly, sentence by sentence.

Okay, you don't think the soldiers deserve a bonus becuase they know about the pay beforehand.

They don't deserve a bonus when it creates additional debt. Just like I don't deserve one when my company is losing money, and the Wall St. guys don't when they drive their companies into the ground.

You don't think they keep the terrorists in check over there so we don't have to fight them here.

That's debatable... you can fight a war over land, you can fight a war over resources, but you can't fight a war (and WIN) over ideological values. This is why the Jews, Muslim, and Christians still exist. This is why drugs still exist. This is why terrorism still exists - Ft. Hood?

You feel it's okay to add to the debt and afford him rights with a trial in NYC.

Where did I say that? I haven't taken a stance on that issue... I'm still weighing both arguments, it depends on whether I believe he's entitled to the rights afforded by the US Constitution - I haven't decided that yet.

You compare a rock keeping tigers away just because "I say it does that" to soldiers keeping terrorists away even though it has been proven to do so.

Was Ft. Hood not a terrorist attack? So, something obviously went wrong there... especially in light that this guys motives were questioned long before this tragedy occurred.

And this is the first time you have said anything about management who, by the way in case you didn't realize, is Obama at the top of that.

No, it's not. I've said I've had qualms with the management long ago - you must've missed those threads. And, yes, I realize Obama is 'in charge' now, but 1) he inherited this cluster, and 2) who said I agree with everything he does? I support Obama as a MUCH better candidate than anything the GOP offered (McCain/Palin - really? ), but that is not an endorsement that I believe 100% in everything Obama does.

[chevysoldier]

I'm just going to bold my comments within your quote.

Let me break this down for you. Again... slowly, sentence by sentence.

They don't deserve a bonus when it creates additional debt. Just like I don't deserve one when my company is losing money, and the Wall St. guys don't when they drive their companies into the ground.

But you don't know if you think he should be tried in NYC which will add to the debt.

That's debatable... you can fight a war over land, you can fight a war over resources, but you can't fight a war (and WIN) over ideological values. This is why the Jews, Muslim, and Christians still exist. This is why drugs still exist. This is why terrorism still exists - Ft. Hood?

We are not fighting a religion per se, we are fighting a radical, extremist religous group. We are not trying to wipe out Muslims. Muslims don't and haven't threatened our way of life as we know it now.

Where did I say that? I haven't taken a stance on that issue... I'm still weighing both arguments, it depends on whether I believe he's entitled to the rights afforded by the US Constitution - I haven't decided that yet.

Don't want to add to debt=may be okay with NYC trial.

Was Ft. Hood not a terrorist attack? So, something obviously went wrong there... especially in light that this guys motives were questioned long before this tragedy occurred.

Human error happens, can't stop everything. Terrorist attack? In the sense of creating panic and terror, yes. Extremist muslim attack? Don't know yet. Maybe? Well orchestrated? No so he probably acted alone which means it probably is not directly tied to the radical group.

No, it's not. I've said I've had qualms with the management long ago - you must've missed those threads. And, yes, I realize Obama is 'in charge' now, but 1) he inherited this cluster, and 2) who said I agree with everything he does? I support Obama as a MUCH better candidate than anything the GOP offered (McCain/Palin - really? ), but that is not an endorsement that I believe 100% in everything Obama does.

But this is the first time, in this thread, where you have mentioned higher being the problem. He already tried to make up his mind about the war before he was even elected. He had no idea what the Generals on ground though. He know American mothers and father want their kids to come home. I want them to come home. But not at the price of having terrorist come here and all our deaths be for nothing. Like I said, it has been proven that us being overseas has had a direct impact on the number of terrorist activities on our land and decreased those. Getting the Iraqi people strong enough to vote, to turn the Iraqi National Guard into the Iraqi Army. To get them to stand up for themselve and decrease terrorists using their land as a home base for trying to kill us. I saw those things take place personally and can vouch for the validity of what we have done for them, for us.

[ReconRat]

ummm, I'm pretty sure most wars are ideological in basis. And even to the extreme, an ideological war can be fought and won or lost. What is meant is that some groups will never forget and fight for multiple generations. Sort of like Hatfields and McCoys.

And oddly, if you examine all wars fought in the MiddleEast, where water is scarce, all conflict occurs at or near ... water resources. So perhaps the concept of ideology isn't the main issue at all. Or we can just say that wars can't be fought without water. A point to make is that everything isn't as it appears to be.

Troops that fight for ideology can be at a significant disadvantage.

As usual, exceptions to everything, sometimes they win.

[alab32]

Let me break this down for you. Again... slowly, sentence by sentence.

They don't deserve a bonus when it creates additional debt. Just like I don't deserve one when my company is losing money, and the Wall St. guys don't when they drive their companies into the ground.

But yet we can increase our debt with "stimulus," that makes sense... God forbid we increase it to help our troops out.

That's debatable... you can fight a war over land, you can fight a war over resources, but you can't fight a war (and WIN) over ideological values. This is why the Jews, Muslim, and Christians still exist. This is why drugs still exist. This is why terrorism still exists - Ft. Hood?

Hmmm... i thought religions still existed because of a belief system, a set of morals and faith. My bad, i guess its because a Muslim cant convince me to go over to his/her religion. And then if we were allllll Muslim, wouldnt that still be a religion? Hmmm... Here comes the 5th pass of that number 69 car.

Where did I say that? I haven't taken a stance on that issue... I'm still weighing both arguments, it depends on whether I believe he's entitled to the rights afforded by the US Constitution - I haven't decided that yet.

How would he be? He isnt a citizen, he is a war criminal... How is this hard to see? I know i know i know, we are not (on paper) at war...

Was Ft. Hood not a terrorist attack? So, something obviously went wrong there... especially in light that this guys motives were questioned long before this tragedy occurred.

I would have to agree, it was a terrorist attack. Once in a while you get a Benedict Arnold. Sucks yes, but it happens.

No, it's not. I've said I've had qualms with the management long ago - you must've missed those threads. And, yes, I realize Obama is 'in charge' now, but 1) he inherited this cluster, and 2) who said I agree with everything he does? I support Obama as a MUCH better candidate than anything the GOP offered (McCain/Palin - really? ), but that is not an endorsement that I believe 100% in everything Obama does.

When do we start blaming him for bad things instead of the previous administration? 1 year? 2 years? The end of his term? As for comparing him and Biden (Oh dear God, or Buddha, or Allah, or the tree in the back yard, whoever it is you pray to/worship) thats a different thread if i had to guess, but i think things would be smoother right now without Obama in office.

[alab32]

ummm, I'm pretty sure most wars are ideological in basis. And even to the extreme, an ideological war can be fought and won or lost. What is meant is that some groups will never forget and fight for multiple generations. Sort of like Hatfields and McCoys.

Very true, it seemed to be a winner for us in the Revolution...

[Disclaimer]

1) I still don't think you can compare Constitutional rights with a military bonus. You have the right to habeas corpus, you also have a right to a public defender if you can't afford one. You don't have a RIGHT to a military bonus. This is why one debt is unacceptable, one is debatable. I understand a trial will add debt, but that's the price you pay to have the Constitution, not a bonus check.

2) I understand we're not fighting Muslims, but once again... good luck fighting an ideology, this is why the War on Drugs has worked so well too. The simple fact that we do fight them, then torture them, and it's all leaked out just helps recruitment. That's how it works.

3) You said it yourself "Human error happens" - so until all humans are outside the process, it won't be error-free and thus we'll never be 100% safe... ever, no matter how much money we throw at the problem.

4) Like I said before, I've never ragged on or dogged our troops. They're following orders. Sorry you didn't read any of the previous threads where I've mentioned it, but it's always been about the 'mangement' - so it's NOT the first time I've mentioned it overall, but yes - the first time I've mentioned it in this thread. My bad for assuming it was implied. I have friends that have served and I wouldn't dog their service.

Further - you keep mentioning Iraq. Iraq has little to do with terrorists... it was Afghanistan, so I don't see why you keep going to the 'Iraq tree' when it doesn't strengthen your argument.

[alab32]

Im only going to comment on one part of this even though i have some more to say about all of it.

Further - you keep mentioning Iraq. Iraq has little to do with terrorists... it was Afghanistan, so I don't see why you keep going to the 'Iraq tree' when it doesn't strengthen your argument.

IRAQ IS FULL OF TERRORISTS! They have a group called... wait for it... al-Qaeda in Iraq. They have been decreasing in numbers a lot since we have been over there. Yes, Afghanistan was the "starter" of 9-11 but if you think there are not any ties between all the middle eastern countries youre out of your mind.

[chevysoldier]

1) I still don't think you can compare Constitutional rights with a military bonus. You have the right to habeas corpus, you also have a right to a public defender if you can't afford one. You don't have a RIGHT to a military bonus. This is why one debt is unacceptable, one is debatable. I understand a trial will add debt, but that's the price you pay to have the Constitution, not a bonus check.

HE ISN'T AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. THE CONSTITUTION DOESN'T PROTECT HIM.

2) I understand we're not fighting Muslims, but once again... good luck fighting an ideology, this is why the War on Drugs has worked so well too. The simple fact that we do fight them, then torture them, and it's all leaked out just helps recruitment. That's how it works.

And what started this war? 9/11 attacks. So what do we do? Let them run amuck? Let them turn us into radical Muslims?? Do you think they care one bit about your life? They would shoot you dead on sight whether you presented a deadly threat or not. Would you do the same to him? I doubt it.

3) You said it yourself "Human error happens" - so until all humans are outside the process, it won't be error-free and thus we'll never be 100% safe... ever, no matter how much money we throw at the problem.

How much did Obama throw at the national debt trying to fix the problem? We didn't ask for this war, this war came to us and we reponded. See Dec 7th 1941.

4) Like I said before, I've never ragged on or dogged our troops. They're following orders. Sorry you didn't read any of the previous threads where I've mentioned it, but it's always been about the 'mangement' - so it's NOT the first time I've mentioned it overall, but yes - the first time I've mentioned it in this thread. My bad for assuming it was implied. I have friends that have served and I wouldn't dog their service.

Further - you keep mentioning Iraq. Iraq has little to do with terrorists... it was Afghanistan, so I don't see why you keep going to the 'Iraq tree' when it doesn't strengthen your argument.

Okay, Middle East. Most parts over there are terrorist training grounds. We can't put our army in every country. Have you noticed a shift of troops from Iraq to Afghanistan? Iraq is much more stabile now than it was. Afghanistan is a totally different beast because NATO is involved and the terrain is difficult.

Now I'm going to sleep in my nice, warm bed, with a roof over my head because of those fellow Americans that will stand at the ready all night long to keep our enemy at bay thousands of miles away. How is this fact so difficult for you to conceive?

[Disclaimer]

IRAQ IS FULL OF TERRORISTS! They have a group called... wait for it... al-Qaeda in Iraq. They have been decreasing in numbers a lot since we have been over there. Yes, Afghanistan was the "starter" of 9-11 but if you think there are not any ties between all the middle eastern countries youre out of your mind.

So, does it make sense to invade Iraq before Afghanistan? Weapons of Mass destruction was the reasoning, right? Not terrorists... WMDs was the reason we were given...and even that wasn't true...

[Kosmo]

if you think there are not any ties between all the middle eastern countries youre out of your mind.

jeese......middle eastern countries are also.....

UAE

OMAN

Qatar

Kuwait

Jordan

Israel

Turkmenistan

Uzbekistan

Azerbaizan

Georgia

Armenia

Turkey

it's sad.....all I can say.....

[ReconRat]

Actually terrorists of the sort we're speaking about, started with a single Egyptian student in the USA. And returned to Egypt, to start a fanatic trend. It quickly exported to the "Brotherhood" in Syria. And of course, crossed borders into Iraq and Saudi Arabia (and Yemen). Then leading to even more of such in most every country in the world. In particular, Afganistan, due to the war against the Soviets, and the lack of local enforcement of any kind. Money talks there.

[Disclaimer]

He's not an American citizen, but as it's been stated... if we treat him worse, then we're no better than "them". What kind of hypocritical message does that send? Turn the other cheek, right? Jesus says so.

The best way to fight terrorism (as in, causing terror and fear) is to not let it cause terror and fear within a country. Yet, here we are over 8 years later, and still no Bin Laden, no end or resolution in sight, and arguing with each other about it on the internet. How productive.

[alab32]

jeese......middle eastern countries are also.....

UAE

OMAN

Qatar

Kuwait

Jordan

Israel

Turkmenistan

Uzbekistan

Azerbaizan

Georgia

Armenia

Turkey

it's sad.....all I can say.....

Well no joke... I apologize for my embellishment, im sure since youre perfect you have never done it. Sorry i saddened you.

[ReconRat]

WMD, geez... according to the United Nations, the WMDs in Iraq were found between the two Iraqi wars, by the United Nations inspectors. Nobody cares.

[alab32]

So, does it make sense to invade Iraq before Afghanistan? Weapons of Mass destruction was the reasoning, right? Not terrorists... WMDs was the reason we were given...and even that wasn't true...

I didnt know we invaded Iraq before Afghanistan. I could have sword we invaded Afghanistan first. Ill go look back at the 2001 history book.

Yes, WMD's were a big part of us going in there, were your definition of WMD's found? Nope. There were LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of weapons they shouldnt have there though. And have you seen the amount of underground facilities are in Iraq? TONS! God only knows if there is a big group of WMD's in one of those. Or, how bout IRAN! They just happen to be neighboring countries, have some pretty good ties, help each other out under the table. But hey, this is all just stuff im making up so its cool.

[Kosmo]

Well no joke... I apologize for my embellishment, im sure since youre perfect you have never done it. Sorry i saddened you.

It's all OK dude.......it's all debate and in a good heart....I am not even near perfect (I will not evenly remotely think) and nobody is......so it's all good