National Health Care Bill...A national health scare?

[velnarah]

the following is a snippet... the full version can be found at http://www.morningstarministries.org/Articles/1000054411/MorningStar_Ministries/Media/Special_Bulletins/2009/Special_Bulletin_19.aspx

Let me just add, this thread is not meant to discuss faith/religion. It's about this bill.

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SPECIAL BULLETIN

NATIONAL HEALTH SCARE

By Rick Joyner

.........

after reading the brief on this health care bill, I don’t see how anyone could not see that there is profound evil and evil intent at work here.....

This bill is obviously designed to put the authority to determine who lives and dies in America into the hands of government bureaucrats. As outrageous as that seems, it is true—you can read it yourself. It even gives the government access to all of your accounts, and the authority to make withdrawals. I know this is hard to believe, but you can read it yourself.

Do you want a government bureaucrat to determine if your mother or father can receive treatment, even in life and death cases? Would you want a government bureaucrat to determine if your child, or you, could receive treatment, even when it means life or death? Think of the best experience that you ever had working with a government bureaucrat, and then think about them having the power to make a potentially life or death choice for your child, your parents, or for you. This is actually what is being proposed.

...........

Last night on Fox News, a former Clinton Administration council to the President stated courageously that this bill was not just about money, it was about euthanasia. The money part does not make any sense at all, but now that the real evil that is driving this can be clearly seen, we can understand that the Administration really does not care about saving money or providing health care for everyone; rather it is about control.

.........

The following is a brief outline of this bill put together by Mat Staver of the Freedom Foundation and Liberty Counsel (contact info is at the end). The comments by the brief are Mat’s, except where I have noted my own by putting them in italics. The bold is also mine.

Obama Health Care Plan Details

HR 3200 currently under consideration in the House of Representatives

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Government will audit the books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC Bill - YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC Bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your benefits for you. You have no choice!

Pg 50 Section 152 in HC Bill - HC will be provided to ALL non-U.S. citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58 HC Bill – Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances and a National ID Health Care Card will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your banks accounts for electronic funds transfer.

(NOTE FROM RJ-This really does mean they can take your money at any time. Who will have this authority?—a government bureaucrat.)

Pg 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions and community organizations (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government is creating a Health Care Exchange to bring private health care plans under government control.

Pg 84 Sec 203 HC Bill - Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private health care plans in the Exchange

Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The government will ration your health care!

Pg 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Government mandates linguistic appropriate services.

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The government will use groups i.e., ACORN & AmeriCorps to sign up individuals for government Health Care Plan

Pg 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - Your health care WILL be rationed

Pg 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Individual will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

Pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue the government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against government monopoly.

Pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The government will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An employer MUST auto enroll employees into public opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part-time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer w/ payroll 400k and above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

Pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between 251k and 400k who do not provide public opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable health care according to government will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay).

Pg 195 Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans' financial and personal records.

Pg 203 Line 14-15 HC - “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, it does not matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same.

Pg 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of doctors' time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans.

Pg 265 Sec 1131Government mandates and controls productivity for private health care industries.

Pg 268 Sec 1141 Federal Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

Pg 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals – Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

(RJ-NOTE: Much cancer treatment will not work unless implemented early, but the waiting time just to see a specialist will likely be months when this plan is implemented. As you can see in this bill, the option of the health care bureaucrat is to deny treatment to those they deem not likely to be helped by it. Watch the cancer death rate skyrocket.)

Page 280 Sec 1151 The government will penalize hospitals for what government deems preventable readmissions. (Incentives for hospital to not treat and release.)

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors that treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission-Government will penalize you.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Government is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception, BUT community input required. Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Government mandates establishment of outcome based measures. Health Care the way they want. Rationing.

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans (Part B), HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Government plan.

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Government will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Government creates more bureaucracy – Tele-health Advisory Committee. Health care by phone/Internet?

Pg 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance [Death] Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life.

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

Pg 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

Pg 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The government has a say in how your life ends.

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An “adv. care planning consult” will be used frequently as patient's health deteriorates.

Pg 429 Lines 10-12 “adv. care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government.

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The government will specify which doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

(NOTE FROM RJ: The above really does give the government the authority to determine who lives and dies, and when. A government bureaucrat really will be making this decision for you and your loved ones.)

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non-profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Services here!!?

Pg 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

Pg 489 Sec 1308 The government will cover Marriage and Family therapy. They will insert government into your marriage.

Pg 494-498 Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services.

PG 502 Sec 1181 Center for Comparative Effectiveness Research Established. – Hello Big Brother – Literally.

Pg 503 Lines 13-19 Government will build registries and data networks from YOUR electronic medical records.

Pg 503 lines 21-25 Government may secure data directly from any department or agency of the U.S., including your data.

I had to cut this short due to space. Please see the link above for the full article. there's at least a thousand pages in this bill. This post stops it at the summary for pg503.

[chachi1189]

This scares me...

I'm mostly moderate in terms of the political spectrum and I used to be slightly left leaning, but due to events of late I've become more right leaning.

The things you bolded are ridiculous...

[velnarah]

actually I didn't bold them. "...The comments by the brief are Mat’s, except where I have noted my own by putting them in italics. The bold is also mine."...

so that makes the bold Rick Joyners.

This scares me...

I'm mostly moderate in terms of the political spectrum and I used to be slightly left leaning, but due to events of late I've become more right leaning.

The things you bolded are ridiculous...

[dmagicglock]

haha love it, at first I was like... ANOTHER insurance thread... is it necessary? THEN i read it and said... this deserves its own thread

[Disclaimer]

[smashweights]

assuming all this is valid, looks like we're gonna get fucked. i just hope military medicine doesnt change any cause this change in the public sector is a big reason i'm planning to go the AF route.

[Dweezel]

Yeah JRMMiii is stillconvinced that Osama...er Obama is god. The Health care bill is the end of the free world. It has SOOO many parts that fuck the common man it's unbelievable that even ONE person would vote yes to it. Big government finally has what it wants and everyone is about to have the rug pulled out from under them with their eyes closed.

[Dweezel]

If your seriously still behind this your so fucking blind I'm amazed you have a drivers license.

[Disclaimer]

If your seriously still behind this your so fucking blind I'm amazed you have a drivers license.

Srsly? I'm not the one that believes the sky is falling...

[dmagicglock]

^^ I don't get it?

[fusion]

*Dons his robe and tin foil hat*

[Disclaimer]

*Dons his robe and tin foil hat*

+1, does anyone bother to research the source anymore?

These were on the first page of Google search when I looked up "Rick Joyner". Yea, this guy can be trusted...

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/j08.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4Fdn96cj_E

[dmagicglock]

you know what a better response could've been?

Actually looking up the legislation yourself. I did, and I checked some of the lines from the OP and what do you know... they're correct. Here take a look for yourself, all 1018 pages.

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

[dmagicglock]

Oh wait, I cited the "government", please look them up and tell me about its credibility and how it can't be trusted either

[Mikejr879]

Abut time if you ask me. I want a public option. But I'm biased... I from Germany. We had always both. The greed will always be there.

[Earache]

When did it become the Government's responsibility to provide insurance? Does everything have to be spoon fed to people?

[Dweezel]

When did it become the Government's responsibility to provide insurance? Does everything have to be spoon fed to people?

the stupid people yes, we've just reached (and not recently either) the point where the stupid/lazy are the majority and like JRMMiii want everything spoon fed to them.

[Aerik]

I'm personally not opposed to people making a profit- my problem comes when someone is making a profit to the direct detriment of the well-being of my countrymen. No company is more important to me than the American people at large. If private insurance companies can find an ethical way to stay in business, maybe catering exclusive services to the rich, so be it. In the meantime, I'd just as soon we have at least some kind of framework under which every American is given access to regular health care- preventive stuff is generally cheaper than an ER trip once things get major, healthier kids do better in school, and a healthy workforce is more productive, which helps the economy.

I'm certainly not happy with the bill currently being debated, for a number of reasons, but damned near anything's better than the current setup. I don't believe it's acceptable to let Americans be bankrupted by medical bills- if they didn't accrue those bills they'd die, it's not like buying a plasma tv on a credit card. Hell, my wife still owes thousands on the bill she got when she had her son (five years ago), and if her biopsies this week come back with anything bad, we're pretty fucked. And yes, I was for a public option before I met her.

Incidentally, I agree with part of what you just posted, IP-- I think we would be best to simply combine (and streamline) medicare and medicaid, and expand them to cover all Americans, instead of creating a new bureaucracy. I don't mind paying taxes when I get something out of it.

Ugh, I shouldn't allow myself to get tangled up in political arguments when I'm half-asleep. Ramble ramble ramble...

[PrincessPratt]

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

This is such crap! I have end of life discussions with people EVERY day SEVERAL times a day. It's what i do! Quality of life is different for every single person! GRRRRR. I don't agree with many of the decisions my patients and their respective family members make...like leaving someone on a vent that has no chance of meaningful recovery BUT nevertheless it's their choice. Healthcare is getting very scary people. Reimbursement is gettting less and less. Attendings/NP's are getting VERY VERY tired working double the hours to make the same money. Good medical staff are going to start looking elsewhere and will start taking administrative/research positions just to keep income coming in. Is this what we want? Just my 2 cents.....

[Disclaimer]

Everyone does still realize this is just a proposal, right?

Don't get the pitchforks out yet.

@being spoonfed. IP had my back, sorta.

But, I don't need to hash out my issues in every single thread... I was specifically called out in this one, but whatever you guys want to think. There's really no tactful way to say what I'd wanna say so, I'll STFU and let you sillies complain about proposals and create your own little mass hysteria, then do nothing about it, as usual.

Edited August 2, 2009 by JRMMiii

[PrincessPratt]

then do nothing about it, as usual.

Do you know how many times I've written my representatives hoping to have a voice and NOTHING was done! It gets quite frustrating. This affects me not just on the patient side but also as a Nurse Practitioner who relies on reimbursement rates to make a living.

We've all lobbied for HB253 allowing Ohio NP's to have schedule II prescriptive authority but NOTHING has been done and it's still on the freaking shelf 2 years later!!!!!!!!! I need that bill to be passed seeing I manage opiods all day long!

[fusion]

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

This is such crap! I have end of life discussions with people EVERY day SEVERAL times a day. It's what i do! Quality of life is different for every single person! GRRRRR. I don't agree with many of the decisions my patients and their respective family members make...like leaving someone on a vent that has no chance of meaningful recovery BUT nevertheless it's their choice. Healthcare is getting very scary people. Reimbursement is gettting less and less. Attendings/NP's are getting VERY VERY tired working double the hours to make the same money. Good medical staff are going to start looking elsewhere and will start taking administrative/research positions just to keep income coming in. Is this what we want? Just my 2 cents.....

Except it doesn't say what they claim at all...

I wish idiots would actually read the thing. It even includes this wonderful little line as a part of that section, "effectively communicates the individual’s

preferences regarding life sustaining treatment, including an indication of the treatment and care desired by the individual;"

It's all the sky is falling bullshit. First, it's still being working in the House. Second, instead of just reading the pieces you might want to try reading the whole section some of those tidbits are pulled from so you can see plain and simple they are trying to instill nothing but fear...

[smashweights]

has anyone else been bothered by the fact that, if this passes, the gov't will essentially control one of the largest banks in the world (AIG), one of the largest automakers in the world (GM), and our entire healthcare system? All potentially in less than ONE year?

Where exactly are these types of ownership powers given in the constitution?

[Disclaimer]

It's right in between the section on warrantless wiretapping and the section that shows that the vice president is in both the executive and legislative branches at the same time, thus making himself his own special 4th branch of gov't

[Cheech]

OK, this one is just too good. I think I just might have to don my mankini and jump in this pool.

the stupid people yes, we've just reached (and not recently either) the point where the stupid/lazy are the majority and like JRMMiii want everything spoon fed to them.

I disagree with that statement but to give you the benefit of the doubt, I'll ask 2 simple questions: Do you think the current healthcare system in this country is a sustainable option? If you happen to lose your job for whatever reason, do you think it's acceptable that you are 1 debilitating disease/accident away from bankruptcy?

has anyone else been bothered by the fact that, if this passes, the gov't will essentially control one of the largest banks in the world (AIG), one of the largest automakers in the world (GM), and our entire healthcare system? All potentially in less than ONE year?

Where exactly are these types of ownership powers given in the constitution?

Ah, a strict Constitutionalist. Although I will not argue your point that the bailouts of AIG and GM were and are completely bullshit, I will argue that everything does not need to be spelled out in the Constitution.

I can, however, tell you what IS spelled out in the Constitution:

Article 6, paragraph 2 - This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

Any questions?