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Hey Tpoppa

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42 minutes ago, TimTheAzn said:

 

When the hell is that daytona rebuild going to be finished? 

No fucking clue.  People laugh when I tell them I'm riding a 60k+ mile Ducati and my brand new Triumph has been in the shop for 6+ months.  

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1 hour ago, TimTheAzn said:

 I don't need to tell you that's where the money is made riding a liter, getting slowed, pointed, back to WOT asap. What is this thing called corner speed? :lol:

It depends on the corner. 

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Any corner requires a change in direction.

An efficient change of direction requires you to get your bikes slowed so it can be pointed correctly for exit so you can be on the gas as fast as you can (so you can WOT as long as you possibly can round any give track.)

To get any bike especially a liter bike to get direction is to properly slow it so you have the ability to point it faster than anyone else. Meaning you can begin your drive sooner. Once you have direction you can begin to stand the bike up and apply more throttle.

There are varying levels of how much you need to slow and varying "degrees" of direction which would get you out of the corner efficiently, so yes that part depends on the corner.

All corners require getting a bike at the correct speed to get the correct direction. However minute the inputs may be.

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The only time you'll really see liter bike lines differ from 600's is in the tighter stuff that opens into straights. Entry might be a tiny bit later on wider corners but not noticeably. The biggest decider is what comes after each corner. I'm not going to square off my corners if I'm just going to be slowing even more for another turn right after the initial one. It's more beneficial to carry the speed through the first and then square the second if that opens up into a straightaway afterwards. 

 

Of course this is all ideal lines under ideal conditions, which goes out the window in an actual race unless you have no traffic in front of you and nobody pressuring you from behind. 

Edited by what

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"There are varying levels of how much you need to slow and varying "degrees" of direction which would get you out of the corner efficiently".

Excluding things like kinks where you may not have to brake at all (like the one at Mid O).

I'll use an example like yours when you said, " I'm not going to square off my corners if I'm just going to be slowing even more for another turn right after the initial one." Coming into China Beach at Mid Ohio. Yea, the line is to kinda blow the corner so you carry more speed on entry. You can drop more time with that fast entry and kinda blowing that apex than you can drop trying to go into that next off camber left hander fast. T5 is a slow corner, you must respect the slowest part of any corner and you must respect that slow corners are, well, slow corners.

BUT,  you still needed to slow and get direction in t4 to setup t5's entry. If you set direction up early enough, you get on the gas between 4-5 and trail into 5 yadda yadda. You can only get on the gas there if you have direction, if you don't your still trying to find direction. All else the same, who is going around the track faster, the guy that doesn't get direction out of 4 and cant get on the gas for the additional 1-2 seconds between 4 and 5 or a guy that gets direction out of 4 early and is able to get on the gas between 4-5? You need proper direction out of any given corner.

Really, you need to do this on any bike, but liters especially as they have more power you need to put down and getting pointed means you can begin to stand the bike up and driveeeeee.

My point: To go fast you need throttle, wide open throttle. You need to do this as long as possible around any given track. To get to wide open you must start to open the throttle. Common sense is, the faster you get to wide open, the longer time you'll be at wide open. To start to open the throttle you must be pointed the right way (aka direction). Or you'll have to back off the throttle to get better direction and this will murder your drive. You can't have proper direction early without a proper entry. In the liter bikes case, the best way to do this is to get it "stopped" and "pointed".

 

image.png.43033ecb97b60a149c0c1565c1bdcb6d.png

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Wow what a bunch of technical jargon meant to ruin a good time.

If you want to go fast you need to be able to brake effectively. You can generate way more g-force from braking than you can from accelerating plus it's way more fun to stop hard than it is to accelerate hard.

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5 hours ago, TimTheAzn said:

"There are varying levels of how much you need to slow and varying "degrees" of direction which would get you out of the corner efficiently".

Excluding things like kinks where you may not have to brake at all (like the one at Mid O).

I'll use an example like yours when you said, " I'm not going to square off my corners if I'm just going to be slowing even more for another turn right after the initial one." Coming into China Beach at Mid Ohio. Yea, the line is to kinda blow the corner so you carry more speed on entry. You can drop more time with that fast entry and kinda blowing that apex than you can drop trying to go into that next off camber left hander fast. T5 is a slow corner, you must respect the slowest part of any corner and you must respect that slow corners are, well, slow corners.

BUT,  you still needed to slow and get direction in t4 to setup t5's entry. If you set direction up early enough, you get on the gas between 4-5 and trail into 5 yadda yadda. You can only get on the gas there if you have direction, if you don't your still trying to find direction. All else the same, who is going around the track faster, the guy that doesn't get direction out of 4 and cant get on the gas for the additional 1-2 seconds between 4 and 5 or a guy that gets direction out of 4 early and is able to get on the gas between 4-5? You need proper direction out of any given corner.

Really, you need to do this on any bike, but liters especially as they have more power you need to put down and getting pointed means you can begin to stand the bike up and driveeeeee.

My point: To go fast you need throttle, wide open throttle. You need to do this as long as possible around any given track. To get to wide open you must start to open the throttle. Common sense is, the faster you get to wide open, the longer time you'll be at wide open. To start to open the throttle you must be pointed the right way (aka direction). Or you'll have to back off the throttle to get better direction and this will murder your drive. You can't have proper direction early without a proper entry. In the liter bikes case, the best way to do this is to get it "stopped" and "pointed".

 

image.png.43033ecb97b60a149c0c1565c1bdcb6d.png

T4/5/6 (technically 7/8/9 on bikes) is one of the sections I was mentioning with respect to carrying speed. T4 is the fastest out of those 3 corners, but not by much. T6 is a drive corner and T5 is neutral throttle. You are slowing down for T5 almost immediately after you roll on after the apex in T4. You can really crank on it on T5 after/as you crest the hill, then point and shoot through T6. I am WOT through 6/7, slightly roll off before 8, roll back on for a split second to carry me to T9 brake zone then it's WOT all the way to the 200 sign before T11. 

Carousel is technically a point/shoot corner on the 1000, however if you take that line during a race you are asking to get passed on the inside, effectively killing any benefit you would get from the extra drive down through 13 and onto the front straight. You can make a pass happen on 13 but it's tricky and has to be set up prior to going into carousel. 

I apex a bit later through T1 because my entry is a bit later, giving me better drive down to the T2/3/4 chicane and into keyhole. Keyhole is another point/shoot double apex like carousel. I need to follow Mark through there a few times to see what he is doing, since he shot by me like a rocket ship my last day there this season just after leaving the corner. My guess is he's just carrying a shitload more speed through the corner. I still don't trust the patchy surface but I guess I need to stop being a sissy. My slowest section is probably through keyhole... if I can get that sorted out I should be able to drop into the high 1:30's, which will be nice. Being -60lbs next summer will help as well, already 15 down since thanksgiving. 

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Not the best video for a few reasons but got a clean lap on the last one.

We were all waiting on one of the R6s to punt the ninja over to get by. Wasent worth the risk since I was leading my class to make any moves. Ignore the entrance to 2, there an easy 1-1.5 seconds there by grabbing 4th was just going as fast as I had to. 

 

But anyways that gives some insight on what I had done there this year. Probably could have carried more speed into China beach still, and of course the entrance to the bus stop. 32s next year!

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10 hours ago, what said:

T5 is neutral throttle. You are slowing down for T5 almost immediately after you roll on after the apex in T4.

🤨

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I don't see much neutral throttle on that off-camber left after china beach... trailing in and then back on the gas. May sound like that on the video hes at neutral throttle but I know Dan is trailing into there, off brake when he gets direction then GASSSSS

Ideally, there should be no neutral throttle anywhere. (All of us do it to a degree at our level.)

This is perfect study material Dan posted for literbike riders.

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I jump on the gas to early out of the key hole, and again really suck going into 2 due to laziness and going as fast as I needed to. Helena would be a better person to talk about all this as I think hes been in the 31s maybe? Not sure how often he checks on here any more. 

 

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Trump

Obama

Abortion

Welfare

Gun Control

Immigration

Titties

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16 minutes ago, Tpoppa said:

Trump

Obama

Abortion

Welfare

Gun Control

Immigration

Titties

You forgot religion. 

@TimTheAzn

Up over the off camber left, I'm braking until apex then neutral throttle until I get over the crest. No thanks to lifting the front wheel at that angle - I run to the edge of the track anyway with throttle. I've had a number of pucker moments chasing drive through that corner as the suspension unloads. Obviously in the low 40's I can make up time in every corner, but right now for me there are other sections that will give me more time with more margin. I suspect as I transition to slicks/dot race and warmers I will be able to carry more speed and feel a bit better about it as well. Q3's could probably get me to 1:36 or so but I'd rather not push them that hard :p 

 

Thanks for the video, Dan. I'm always looking for low 30 videos, but they are few and far between. 

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52 minutes ago, Tpoppa said:

Trump

Obama

Abortion

Welfare

Gun Control

Immigration

Titties

Exactly, let's get back to the OP.

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27 minutes ago, jacobhawkins said:

Exactly, let's get back to the OP.

Screw that, titties were mentioned. 

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43 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

Screw that, titties were mentioned. 

NSFW

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Jester_ said:

Not the best video for a few reasons but got a clean lap on the last one.

We were all waiting on one of the R6s to punt the ninja over to get by. Wasent worth the risk since I was leading my class to make any moves. Ignore the entrance to 2, there an easy 1-1.5 seconds there by grabbing 4th was just going as fast as I had to. 

 

But anyways that gives some insight on what I had done there this year. Probably could have carried more speed into China beach still, and of course the entrance to the bus stop. 32s next year!

Clean enough for a race. Race lines and ideal lines are different depending on the situation anyway, as I said before. Gotta make yourself bigger like a peacock through every brake zone and corner if someone is right up on you 🦃

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16 hours ago, JustinNck1 said:

What are these times ya'll speak of? I never seen a start/finish line in SEO :lol:

Those laps were measured in hours ;)

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We can make a start/finish somewhere in SEO if you want, Justin. 1 single 200 mile lap. I bet I could do sub 4 hours on the grom, maybe even hit mid 3's once I put slicks on it. 

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1 minute ago, what said:

We can make a start/finish somewhere in SEO if you want, Justin. 1 single 200 mile lap. I bet I could do sub 4 hours on the grom, maybe even hit mid 3's once I put slicks on it. 

Hell that's just one fuel run. ;)

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19 minutes ago, 2talltim said:

Hell that's just one fuel run. ;)

I think the grom could make it with 1 fuel stop. 

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