Tpoppa Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 3 hours ago, PhilD'oh! said: I don't know anything about the track, but from those I've talked to, you have to be very good to out brake a modern abs system. That said, MotoGP bikes don't have it. You Rossi, Marquez, Dovi caliber? MotoGp doesn't have abs because it against the rules, at least it was last I looked into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilD'oh! Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Right. I guess that still leaves the question of whether it's an advantage or not, on the track. My (uneducated) guess is that the super high level, professional riders (MotoGP guys) can brake more competitively without it. The rest of us would benefit from it, especially on the street. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilD'oh! Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Actually, the more I think about it..the real question is whether "Joe average" or even "Joe slightly-above average (Tonik)" can out brake a modern abs system on the track or on the street. I'd bet a paycheck the answer is "no" at least 75% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I think motogp bans it to keep costs down for the teams, they have a lot of rules for that reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 How exactly is abs going to help when locking the front is almost impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 14 minutes ago, blue03636 said: How exactly is abs going to help when locking the front is almost impossible? Right, because no one ever tucks the front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Abs wouldn't help that, by the time it would even start to tuck you would be oh the ground when you are riding at the limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 And actually tucking the front is from loss of grip not locking the wheel. You exceed the limit of the tire not that you're on the brakes so hard they lock. The abs would never ever kick on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 38 minutes ago, blue03636 said: Abs wouldn't help that, by the time it would even start to tuck you would be oh the ground when you are riding at the limit. 30 minutes ago, blue03636 said: And actually tucking the front is from loss of grip not locking the wheel. You exceed the limit of the tire not that you're on the brakes so hard they lock. The abs would never ever kick on. Don't be so sure. I seriously doubt anyone on this board could out brake the excellent C-ABS on my 2010 CBR600RR and that was a couple generations behind this http://www.motorcycle.com/safety/mo-tested-cornering-abs.html "...my mind half melted at the amount of braking force that could be applied to a leaned-over front tire before it lost grip and tucked,” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I'm sure you know all so I'll just go with it. The track isn't the street. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_ Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) If I was applying the same amount of brake as I am in the above picture At this point of the corner I would be on my ass ABS or not. Stuff happens alot faster the more leaned over the bike is. You can use more brake in the corner than you think but the key is smooth application. Edited September 14, 2017 by Jester_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, blue03636 said: I'm sure you know all so I'll just go with it. The track isn't the street. Right, the track is a magical land of mystery where the rules of physics are completely different. Lean angle ABS on a street bike is pretty amazing. If you let a race team develop that or had a MotoGP team link it to GPS with a braking profile specific to each braking point on each turn for specific conditions...I'm sorry but no human could match that. I think the downside would be that the racing would not be as exciting to watch. Edited September 14, 2017 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUYZFR1 Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Haven't ridden on the street in 7 years but my 15 R1 has close to 6000 miles on it. It still has ABS on it and I can see no reason why I would need to remove it to get faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 So is the ABS linked to the rear tire as well? What happens if you go to back it in and the abs kicks in? I still stand by abs doing nothing at full lean to prevent a tuck, they aren't the same crash. The tire will be gone before the abs would kick in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_ Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Hey now that new R1 ABS is a different thing altogether. A 2010 cbr doesnt have a gyro in it or understand when a wheel is off the ground, know how much lean angle you have. Tonik buy a 2015 R1. I heard a couple others on OR might get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I don't claim to know fuck all about racing, but I do know technology. This is pretty much the same argument every time new technology comes along. There's no way launch control, or wheelie control, or traction control, or even a quick shifter can do better than a skilled, experienced racer. Until they do. Ask Josh Hayes. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 So the salvage yard just called to pick up my bike. So it is officially totaled. Have not heard from the insurance company yet, I imagine they are slammed with hurricane stuff and I am fine waiting. Those peeps need service before I do. Of course the bike isn't going anywhere until I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_ Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 When did you crash? Must have missed that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUYZFR1 Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 29 minutes ago, blue03636 said: So is the ABS linked to the rear tire as well? What happens if you go to back it in and the abs kicks in? I still stand by abs doing nothing at full lean to prevent a tuck, they aren't the same crash. The tire will be gone before the abs would kick in. The ABS is linked. I don't back it in and for that matter I haven't been on track with anyone actually backing it in. Maybe Knapp or some others but I didn't witness it firsthand. Those guys are at a different level than the average club racer though. I think the tuck situation depends on what is causing the tire to lose traction. if it's purely too much cornering force then no it won't help. If it's because you apply too much brake while cornering then I think it would, you can lock the front at full lean while it's almost impossible while upright. I fully believe the comment above about new technology, humans just cannot do things better or faster than a computer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jester_ said: When did you crash? Must have missed that Last Saturday on 536. I was a dumbass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester_ Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I agree but it has to be setup right. Like the new R1 stuff cant begin to compare to older first gen abs systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackbikez Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 Manual controls << ABS alone << Six-axis IMU systems << Future? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, Tonik said: I was a dumbass. Signature line gold right there. Sorry to hear that you crashed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 15 minutes ago, Jester_ said: I agree but it has to be setup right. Like the new R1 stuff cant begin to compare to older first gen abs systems. I had a 2008 SV650 with ABS that was absolutely dangerous. The wheel wouldn't lock, but it basically disengaged the brake. It took forever to stop, it was scary. The linked C-ABS on had on my CBR and currently have on my VFR12 is light years ahead of that shitty Suzuki system. I can try to lock up both tires on dry pavement, or wet, or gravel, and it just stops without even a wiggle. The new R1, BWM, Aprilia, etc systems are even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 but then how do you get the butt to wiggle around under heavy braking? that's no fun. lame. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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