Why it should be harder to get a motorcyle license in U.S.

[Tonyblaze]

Why it should be harder to get a motorcycle license in the U.S.

The author is arguing from a safety standpoint but doesn't back it up with his statistics. he cites several but not how they relate to each other. I did some digging and found that the motorcycle related fatalities in the U.S. are historically five times greater than those in the U.K. once corrected for population levels. Additionally motorcycle usage is higher in the U.K. than the U.S. per capita for daily transportation. The author's solution has no chance of being implemented in the U.S. at this time. It would incur huge cost increases to state governments on the purchase, maintenance and upkeep of Instructor motorcycles and the training and re certification of instructors. Not to mention the upgrade of software systems to track and maintain accurate records of he varying certifications. Better money would be spent on mandating ABS braking on all motorcycles certified for road use in U.S. as is already the case for many other nations. The only reason is hasn't been done up to now is becasue of the money and pressure from industry lobbyists.  https://medium.com/@IrishVictualler/the-governments-stance-on-motorcycle-antilock-brakes-is-based-on-junk-science-102280d889c8    With nearly 50% of nations requiring ABS now it will soon be more cost effective for manufactures to standardize their operations for ABS. 

Better money would also be spent on mandating helmet use for motorcyclists unless an affirmative waiver is signed for financial responsibility in the event of a crash. Statistics show that states with helmet laws have lower fatality rates from motorcycle accidents than ones without. A rider sustaining head injury or dying from head injury in a crash incurs a large financial cost to the local municipality  and insurance industry in local emergency response, advance life support services, long term care services and local agency investigation requirements and reporting. If riders want to exercise their freedoms and not wear a helmet then they should be willing to pay for it and not encumber the rest of the taxpayers and insurance purchasers with higher costs for their choice. There should be set reimbursement caps for all of the above listed that are charged to the rider and his/her insurance for reimbursement. End result would be that riders would find purchasing insurance cost prohibitive unless helmet use was agreed to. 

Better money also would be spent on mandating a divers license retest at every fourth renewal. The insanity of testing in your teens and then being licensed for the next 60-80 years without re-evalution is insanity and the cause for many accidents on our roads. 

[hiro]

With so many people just riding without a license (from what I've heard) and without training, I don't think it should be more difficult to get a license. It should be *easier* to get training and experience and get licensed!

When I was in NJ I wanted to ride, but never did except maybe once...without a license. I believe it required riding with a licensed rider while having a permit. I didn't know anyone to ride with, so that was an obstacle. Ohio made it much easier, but I took the time to take the MSF class and practice on my own in safer areas before expanding out into the world. During that time, I did look to other countries' guidelines for how to progress safely and effectively. I found the system in the UK to be ridiculously strict. The system in Australia seemed more reasonable--LAMS.

From what I remember, LAMS requires a certain amount of training and a learner bike. A learner bike could be a Ninja 650 with a limiter. Having a Ninja 650 now, I agree that that makes perfect sense. Starting smaller, which was an option I took, is good, too. I didn't need the government to dictate that to me. I'm still hesitant to ride anything too far outside my range of experience. (Meaning, cruisers, big touring bikes, higher power.)

So, I would say progressive licensing isn't terrible within reason. Making information available on best practices should help. It's more about culture, I think. If you start off hanging with people who jump straight onto a superbike and play Mission Impossible on the street, bad things could happen quick! (If they even make the first turn out of the parking lot. heh)

Helmets, after a learning period, should be optional, although I choose to wear one. I think if people have good options available and a culture that values skills and safety, it will be OK.

Re-testing...sure. Why not? Considering that some people might not ride for a while, maybe years at a time.

[hiro]

Also, training for newer road issues like texting, round-abouts, limits of anti-lock brakes. They could be online-classes even.

Maybe it should be required for all people applying for a car license to either ride a motorcycle or bicycle in traffic!

[magley64]

5 minutes ago, Isaac's Papa said:

The MSF rider course is less than $100. It doesn't get much easier. 

$50, one of my friends finished his up today.

[Tonik]

Not sure I understand why I need anyone's permission to ride my bike.

[whaler]

Highest crash and death rate is 40+ and 1200cc+. This is of course the largest group of riders and cruisers are the predominant motorcycle of choice. Lack of helmets and drinking and riding are the 2 key factors why this group is over represented in fatality statistics.

Outside of the above, there is a clear lack of statistics for Ohio with respect to a more granular breakdown of demographics, age, and motorcycle type.

So If you are over 40, ride a cruiser, and do not have an endorsement... you are more likely to die in a motorcycle accident.

[hiro]

39 minutes ago, whaler said:

So If you are over 40, ride a cruiser, and do not have an endorsement... you are more likely to die in a motorcycle accident.

"Older" riders probably put down more miles and go to unfamiliar places more often, too. Maybe get complacent.

Good reason to stick with sport bikes? That would probably reduce the number of older people riding. heh

Kitten says, "p[;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;oooooooooooooooooooooooo"

[Tonik]

5 hours ago, hiro said:

Good reason to stick with sport bikes? That would probably reduce the number of older people riding. 

This old guy will be doing a buck fifty tomorrow on the backstretch of Mid Ohio.

[JustinNck1]

I know this may sound insensitive, but the statistics don't change my stance on not wanting to change things. Let it be, and natural selection will take it's place. I try to prepare myself with protection gear for the worst. I don't think forcing people to follow guidelines on what bike to start on or if they wear a helmet is gonna fix idiotic nature.

[hiro]

7 minutes ago, JustinNck1 said:

I know this may sound insensitive, but the statistics don't change my stance on not wanting to change things. Let it be, and natural selection will take it's place. I try to prepare myself with protection gear for the worst. I don't think forcing people to follow guidelines on what bike to start on or if they wear a helmet is gonna fix idiotic nature.

Right. I followed the LAMS recommendations as just that. I ignored the UK's recommendations, and maybe what some people in the USA might say. No, I don't want a 1200+ cc cruiser and a bandana for a helmet. heh Make information available and let people choose.

[hiro]

True. In my case I've been wanting to take another higher level class in riding and/or get to a track. Neither has been particularly convenient or cheap. The Advanced MSF course wasn't even available. I guess it still helps to have a continual-improvement mindset.

[JustinNck1]

2 hours ago, hiro said:

True. In my case I've been wanting to take another higher level class in riding and/or get to a track. Neither has been particularly convenient or cheap. The Advanced MSF course wasn't even available. I guess it still helps to have a continual-improvement mindset.

There is an Advanced Rider Course in Parkersburg, WV (The city where I work) 9/30/17 and another on 10/21/17. Both still have 12 open spots. I'm not sure how far it is from you. The class is right off Rt 77.

[hiro]

2 hours ago, JustinNck1 said:

There is an Advanced Rider Course in Parkersburg, WV (The city where I work) 9/30/17 and another on 10/21/17. Both still have 12 open spots. I'm not sure how far it is from you. The class is right off Rt 77.

Ah, thanks. Is that a Total Control clinic or an MSF course?

[JustinNck1]

1 minute ago, hiro said:

Ah, thanks. Is that a Total Control clinic or an MSF course?

MSF Advanced RiderCourse

[hiro]

Didn't think to look that far outside of Franklin Co. I use one lesson from Total Control when I go at least 3/4 around a round-about. The drill is to ride around a fixed point while looking at the fixed point the whole time. (I look a little forward of center in a round-about. Basically looking through the curve.)

[redkow97]

my wife got her M endorsement through the MSF program.  It definitely needs to be more difficult.

[jschaf]

The information is available. Never had a nanny & don't need one now.

[Tonyblaze]

With changing times comes changing dynamics. When I first got my driver's license the U.S. population was 230,000,000. Now it's 325,000,000 and rising rapidly. With more people comes more drivers and to a lesser extent more riders. Irresponsible riders stain the biker community, make legislatures more apt to pass asinine laws making it harder or less enjoyable to ride and add a definite cost to other riders and non-riders alike in higher insurance premiums and healthcare paying for their mistakes. Insurers and health providers spread out their costs across their entire customer base, not just the idiots. Also results in mandatory features being mandated on bikes that detract from the experience. I'm just saying the biker community needs to take the lead on this before the legislatures do because its not if, its when. Some major municipalities are looking at higher taxes and fees on vehicle registrations becasue they believe that there are too many cars clogging their streets. Who would have predicted that? 

[jschaf]

Concentrate more about what you are doing & less about what other people are doing would be my advice. 

[magley64]

As long as I can ride my motorcycle, I don't really give a shit if the next generation passes laws restricting or banning them.

[hiro]

2 hours ago, Tonyblaze said:

I'm just saying the biker community needs to take the lead on this before the legislatures do because its not if, its when. Some major municipalities are looking at higher taxes and fees on vehicle registrations because they believe that there are too many cars clogging their streets. Who would have predicted that? 

The first part sounds reasonable. The second part sounds like another excuse to squeeze more cash out of people.

[flashesbuck]

10 hours ago, Isaac's Papa said:

Good. Tax the fuck out of cars. God knows they're over-subsidized in this country. That's why there are too many cars clogging the streets. 

I could not agree more.... I say it all the time " bring on the 5$ gas, my bike ket 50mpg." 

[flashesbuck]

On 8/20/2017 at 2:53 PM, magley64 said:

$50, one of my friends finished his up today.

I need to correct this. Ohio's is $50 for the BRS (basic Rider Course) not affiliated with MSF anymore. MSF did raise the price for a student to $100 this year, but Ohio is not recognizing MSF anymore.  Motorcycle Ohio is working hard to get an advanced course together now. But the new BRS is a whole new ball game and would recommend it to everyone to take it. The last class I taught a few weeks ago had 3 "no shows". So that's 3 open seats. And they are only getting more empty this time of year, and the weather has been phenomenal! 

[magley64]

3 hours ago, flashesbuck said:

I need to correct this. Ohio's is $50 for the BRS (basic Rider Course) not affiliated with MSF anymore. MSF did raise the price for a student to $100 this year, but Ohio is not recognizing MSF anymore.  Motorcycle Ohio is working hard to get an advanced course together now. But the new BRS is a whole new ball game and would recommend it to everyone to take it. The last class I taught a few weeks ago had 3 "no shows". So that's 3 open seats. And they are only getting more empty this time of year, and the weather has been phenomenal! 

I was using the terms interchangeably, wasn't aware the MSF had diverged from Ohio's rider training. I wouldn't see a reason for most people to leave the state to seek out MSF specifically... Especially if not recognized in Ohio.

[hiro]

There was a guy at my BRS class who should NOT have been given a license. At least not without taking another class or getting more help and experience. I don't think he intended to ride, really. Just wanted to say that he learned to ride a motorcycle. He would have been much worse off without the class though!

I'm still looking to graduate beyond the 650 twin. Not that it isn't enough for me.