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Electrical problem


Howabusa
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3 hours ago, Tonik said:

That is it, dunno the exact reason. I think its just easier to buss them together and get a good ground. They are frequently the source of problems. My previous Kaw melted one once

It's possible for two different ground points to have a difference in voltage between them. In that case, they are not both zero volts like we would assume. But, yeah, I don't see how that would be a big deal on a motorcycle. Maybe for the ECU? (You could look up "ground loops" and "star ground" if you feel like surfing. heh)

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3 minutes ago, Howabusa said:

 IT IS FIXED! It was the spider ground. I pulled it apart, cleaned it, and greased it up with some dielectric. The bike started and runs with no weird lights on. Thank you for all the help! You guys are the best! OR rocks!

Damn happy for you dude.  See u next week.

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6 hours ago, Howabusa said:

 IT IS FIXED! It was the spider ground. I pulled it apart, cleaned it, and greased it up with some dielectric. The bike started and runs with no weird lights on. Thank you for all the help! You guys are the best! OR rocks!

That's some good work! Now you're that much better at electrical problems.

A few times my car's dash would go mad, the radio would cut out, and ultimately the engine would not start. Traced it to a corroded ground and battery terminals. One time I sunk an old car in a puddle. It was completely dead after that. I should've thought to check the ground and starter motor for corrosion or shorting. That was an old AMC Gremlin. heh

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4 minutes ago, hiro said:

That's some good work! Now you're that much better at electrical problems.

A few times my car's dash would go mad, the radio would cut out, and ultimately the engine would not start. Traced it to a corroded ground and battery terminals. One time I sunk an old car in a puddle. It was completely dead after that. I should've thought to check the ground and starter motor for corrosion or shorting. That was an old AMC Gremlin. heh

AMC....In most circles that's an acronym for "Ain't  My Car"!

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2 hours ago, motocat12 said:

VFRs use these solid metal microchip jumper looking spider- things to cause their ground issues. making it into 1 ball of solder fixes it

I will probably have nightmares and see that connector any time I close my eyes! And I don't even have a VFR.

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  • 2 months later...

Okay, my spider ground issue has now reappeared twice. I have to pull the left side front fairing off and pull the cap off of the spider ground and grease it up with dielectric grease, that solves it temporarily. The corner of the plastic housing has a black spot, so I am assuming that it is somewhat burned. So, how do I fix this problem permanently?

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Okay. These ground spiders are known to actually melt. From what I can find there's 6 wires with one being a ground wire. This ground wire is grounding the other 5 circuits. Mine has not melted but there is some scorching inside the plug. I assume that is the ground wire. So that wire's connection is loose. When it quits working I taking the cap off and pull the grounding bar, add some grease and put it together. Fixed. I wonder if the storm that rode through in Kentucky washed the dielectric out. The forum guys say to solder all the wires together and add a wire to run to the negative battery post.

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1 hour ago, Isaac's Papa said:

Beats me, man. Any time I had an Aprilia with electrical issues, I'd just throw Yamaha parts at it until it was fixed. You're down a road for which I have no guidance. Godspeed. 

You suck! Pauly

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16 minutes ago, Howabusa said:

 The forum guys say to solder all the wires together and add a wire to run to the negative battery post.

Exactly the same issue on my Nomad 1600 and exactly the same fix.

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Caution using solder:  There's a reason you dont see solder in most connections on cars/bikes.   Actually 3 reasons.  1. High current  can cause the solder to melt.  2. Its brittle, and doesn't like a lot of flexing.  3. Manufacturing efficiencies.  I suspect your "spider" ground to be a pretty high current point, so a good mechanical connection is likely better.  On the other hand, the good thing about solder, it normally increases the contact area by a huge amount.  

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Yeah, the bus bar idea seems solid, but soldered joints should be solid, too. The main reason for not using solder is to be able to disconnect at will. (You could solder on terminals that are then screwed down to the bus bar.) Having a solid connection would reduce internal heat, so as long as the wires are properly sized for the current it should be good. Not sure about heat coming off the engine. If the wires are intertwined, J-hooked, or twisted together before soldering, they shouldn't come apart easily.

(It might be interesting, if not totally useless to know, that current tends to travel on the "skin" of a conductor at higher frequencies. It's called the skin effect and it reduces the effective size of the conductor as if it were hollow.)

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30 minutes ago, hiro said:

(It might be interesting, if not totally useless to know, that current tends to travel on the "skin" of a conductor at higher frequencies. It's called the skin effect and it reduces the effective size of the conductor as if it were hollow.)

I understand the skin effect to happen at low frequencies as well (perhaps to a lesser degree), as the conductor heats up, the outside is cooled faster, and the cooler part of the conductor has less resistance.

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1 hour ago, Qman said:

I understand the skin effect to happen at low frequencies as well (perhaps to a lesser degree), as the conductor heats up, the outside is cooled faster, and the cooler part of the conductor has less resistance.

Wow. Interesting. And the insulation can also be affected. "...materials that are classed as CONDUCTORS tend to INCREASE their resistance with an increase in temperature. INSULATORS however are liable to DECREASE their resistance with an increase in temperature. Materials used for practical insulators (glass, plastic etc.) only exhibit a marked drop in their resistance at very high temperatures. They remain good insulators over all temperatures they are likely to encounter in use."

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I have an '09 FJR that I addressed this issue a long time ago.  I ran my own grounds for the fans because they are high load items.  Then I installed a "Brodie harness" that connects all the ground spiders together and adds two very good ground paths directly to the engine case.  That was over 100,000 miles ago and all-season riding.  No spider problems.  

 

For you, stop fooling around with the dielectric grease, it doesn't fix the problem.  Cut the bad terminal off and solder all 6 wires together along with another 18 ga wire that you can attach to the engine case somewhere.  You should also consider grounding the fans separately, like mine.  Better yet, just ride up to Toledo next week and I'll fix you up.  No charge. 

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7 hours ago, PhilD'oh! said:

I have an '09 FJR that I addressed this issue a long time ago.  I ran my own grounds for the fans because they are high load items.  Then I installed a "Brodie harness" that connects all the ground spiders together and adds two very good ground paths directly to the engine case.  That was over 100,000 miles ago and all-season riding.  No spider problems.  

 

For you, stop fooling around with the dielectric grease, it doesn't fix the problem.  Cut the bad terminal off and solder all 6 wires together along with another 18 ga wire that you can attach to the engine case somewhere.  You should also consider grounding the fans separately, like mine.  Better yet, just ride up to Toledo next week and I'll fix you up.  No charge. 

Fix it, then apply dielectric grease!  Wont hurt!

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