Pivot steering

[durk]

On my flight to and from Florida I decided to read Twist of the Wrist 2 again. As I was reading I came across what Keith Code calls pivot steering. He mentions to use the outside peg as a pivot point and carrying most of your weight on that peg as you hang off on the opposite side of the bike. (Pg 85 is where he discusses this). So yesterday I had 1 last road with some decent turns and I decided to focus a bit on this concept. It made no sense to me. I find myself weighting the inside peg. I feel weighting the inside peg is accomplishing the same idea he is discussing to carry your weight low  on the bike, but am I setting myself up for disaster here? I posted here in the track section because I was not sure where else to post. I know there are some really fast goes on the street as well, so please chime in. 

[blue03636]

The thought behind it is to help get the knee driven into the tank and help you being stable on the bike. If you think of weighting that peg as you lean you will be forced to use the tank and reduce the weight on your hands to the point that you can take them off. In the end, it's not so much weighting the peg as it is a tool to get the weight from your hands. It works, I usually don't have much if any weight on my inside foot.

[TimTheAzn]

I've been under the assumption that you want the weight low and inside, and weighting the inside peg does that for you. I understand the having to put some pressure on the outside peg to lock your outside leg into the tank but I always thought the majority of your weight should be on that inside peg.

Edited April 3, 2017 by TimTheAzn

[durk]

47 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

If you think of weighting that peg as you lean you will be forced to use the tank and reduce the weight on your hands to the point that you can take them off.

I can handle that. That makes sense to me. 

 

49 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

I usually don't have much if any weight on my inside foot.

This is my struggle. The majority of my weight is on the inside peg. I guess I still have more to work on. 

[blue03636]

1 hour ago, TimTheAzn said:

I've been under the assumption that you want the weight low and inside, and weighting the inside peg does that for you. I understand the having to put some pressure on the outside peg to lock your outside leg into the tank but I always thought the majority of your weight should be on that inside peg.

It's going to be very difficult to get the majority of your weight on that tiny spot of the peg that you are touching.

 

 

[Tonik]

I think this is just badly worded. The majority of your weight is still on the inside because you are leaning there.  The majority of the pressure from your two feet is on the outside peg.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Tonik

[TimTheAzn]

Oh so we are talking about pressure you are consciously putting on your (outside to stay locked in tank) vs. weight (inside by virtue of hanging off the bike).

[blue03636]

6 minutes ago, TimTheAzn said:

Oh so we are talking about pressure you are consciously putting on your (outside to stay locked in tank) vs. weight (inside by virtue of hanging off the bike).

Not really, I would still venture to say that the majority of your weight is on the outside leg.

[durk]

10 minutes ago, Tonik said:

I think this is just badly worded. The majority of your weight is still on the inside because you are leaning there.  The majority of the pressure from your two feet is on the outside peg.

I thought the same thing but the following quote from the book makes me wonder:

"Using the outside peg as your pivot point -while pressure is being applied to the bars, either by just pushing or using a combination push and pull- reduces your weight on the seat and puts the majority of your weight on that lower, outside peg."

[TimTheAzn]

Just now, blue03636 said:

Not really, I would still venture to say that the majority of your weight is on the outside leg.

Because you are "hanging" from that leg?

[blue03636]

1 minute ago, TimTheAzn said:

Because you are "hanging" from that leg?

Yes, the inside foot is only in contact on a very small portion of the peg where the outside foot is typically moved to the arch to provide a much larger area of contact.

[TimTheAzn]

Ok that makes sense now, the having more weight on the outside leg thing.

[Tonik]

6 minutes ago, durk said:

"Using the outside peg as your pivot point -while pressure is being applied to the bars, either by just pushing or using a combination push and pull- reduces your pressure on the seat and puts the majority of the pressure on that lower, outside peg. The majority of your weight is still on the inside of the bike because physics."

Fixed it for the author.

[motocat12]

On bicycles your weight is definitely on the outside pedal.

[blue03636]

13 minutes ago, Tonik said:

Fixed it for the author.

Not when you factor in the tank.

[durk]

15 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

Not when you factor in the tank.

So are you saying the pressure is more on the tank than the peg?

[durk]

28 minutes ago, motocat12 said:

On bicycles your weight is definitely on the outside pedal.

This could be true, but I don't hang off to the inside on my bicycle as I do on my motorcycle. 

[blue03636]

7 minutes ago, durk said:

So are you saying the pressure is more on the tank than the peg?

Both, your leg is connected to both

[NinjaDoc]

Having the right tank and ergo played a big role for me  in realizing this statement. The one bike that fit me like a glove was the zx14. Arched the outside foot and the knees would lock right into the grove of the gas tank, as in the leg is wedged in there. After that I could take both hands and inside foot off If I wanted to and I would still be locked in with pressure on both knees and foot. This made That big bike one of the best handling bike I rode since all I needed to do was easy gentle pushing ( really not making this up heheh ) If this makes any sense. On the Vfr I used to literally sit in the inside peg since my knee would just slide up the tank despite the snake skin and stuff. Is this what you meant @blue03636 

 

 

other bikes I am having hard time finding that ergo. Sat on tons of bike on the motorcycle show, the one that gave me the right fit like a glove was.... gulp... a superduke GT, well it doesn't hurt to dream I guess. 

Do people adjust the rear set etc to get this "ergo right" or just looking for more clearance? 

[blue03636]

14 minutes ago, NinjaDoc said:

Having the right tank and ergo played a big role for me  in realizing this statement. The one bike that fit me like a glove was the zx14. Arched the outside foot and the knees would lock right into the grove of the gas tank, as in the leg is wedged in there. After that I could take both hands and inside foot off If I wanted to and I would still be locked in with pressure on both knees and foot. This made That big bike one of the best handling bike I rode since all I needed to do was easy gentle pushing ( really not making this up heheh ) If this makes any sense. On the Vfr I used to literally sit in the inside peg since my knee would just slide up the tank despite the snake skin and stuff. Is this what you meant @blue03636 

 

 

other bikes I am having hard time finding that ergo. Sat on tons of bike on the motorcycle show, the one that gave me the right fit like a glove was.... gulp... a superduke GT, well it doesn't hurt to dream I guess. 

Do people adjust the rear set etc to get this "ergo right" or just looking for more clearance? 

Yes

 

And yes that is why rearsets are adjusted.

[motocat12]

fake news? http://www.sportrider.com/sportbike-riding/pressuring-pegs-motorcycle-riding-tip#page-2

Through the middle of a corner, try to take as much weight off of your arms and simultaneously put more pressure on the inside footpeg. Doing so will keep you from making unwanted inputs into the clip-ons, but more relative to this particular article, it’ll allow you to hold—or manipulate—your line.

[jschaf]

I've read a lot of misleading stuff from supposed experts on weighting this peg or that peg.  Keith Code makes the most sense to me---weight the outside peg & lock the leg to the tank for the sole purpose of taking weight off the bars & preventing unintended steering input like blue03636 said.  Putting more than a smidge of weight on the inside peg is awkward & will actually cause you to make unintended steering inputs when you are hanging off or when you transition. Your bike doesn't know which peg you are weighting, It only knows the location of your center of gravity.

[Tonik]

1 minute ago, jschaf said:

Your bike doesn't know which peg you are weighting, It only knows the location of your center of gravity.

Bam! That is what I was trying to say.

[Gixxus Christ!]

my TL1000S had the perfect ergos for this. the tank cuts were just right and the pegs were in just the right place that all i had to do was push down with my toes a little to raise my knee and my leg would lock right in. I really miss that bike.

[what]

I thought I weighted my inside leg but now thinking back, it's always my outside calf muscle that starts to tell me that I'm getting worn out on the track. I guess I'm weighting the outside peg without thinking about it?

 

I'll have to consciously work on this I guess, since I'm not sure.