Hillary's fair share ad.

[Tonik]

3 minutes ago, Bubba said:

I just posted a bike for Bad on the CL Rant thread.  Shouldn't need much...

Take it out of Johns Social Security. When he thought that was my government pension in his chart he was all in favor if cutting that. Can't imagine he changed his mind that quickly.

Dang, being a liberal troll is fun.

[Bad324]

I'm so glad someone trying to find funds to get a bike for me has now entered 3 threads. We keep this going and someone might actually find $ to gift me for a bike

the fucking IRS is enemy number 1 of why any purchase that isn't a nessecity is on the back burner. Fuckin crooks trying to say I owe $5k in taxes in a year where I was on unemployment for 4 months in which I didn't even get close to $5k

[Tonik]

1 minute ago, Bad324 said:

I'm so glad someone trying to find funds to get a bike for me has now entered 3 threads. We keep this going and someone might actually find $ to gift me for a bike

the fucking IRS is enemy number 1 of why any purchase that isn't a nessecity is on the back burner. Fuckin crooks trying to say I owe $5k in taxes in a year where I was on unemployment for 4 months in which I didn't even get close to $5k

Don't F around with them man. Meet them head on right away, it will only get worse.

[ricer1]

Take it out of Johns Social Security. When he thought that was my government pension in his chart he was all in favor if cutting that. Can't imagine he changed his mind that quickly.

Dang, being a liberal troll is fun.

Since I planned my retirement on never seeing any social security it will not bother me. It wouldn't begin for me until 67.5 years old. By that time there will a means test and many will be excluded.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bad324]

My buddy who is a CPA that did my taxes this year is handling it for me. If it becomes a bigger problem I'll use one of the many lawyers who kicked ass for us with the whole shutting down the family business bullshit. 

It was my mistake letting my wife take the stuff to H&R Block because she was too impatient to wait for my buddy to do them. 2014 was a crazy year and the first I didn't do myself. Job #1 which we didn't get W2s for (said family biz that closed) unemployment for 4 months, job #2 and got married all in the same tax year

[Tonik]

1 minute ago, ricer1 said:

Since I planned my retirement on never seeing any social security it will not bother me. It wouldn't begin for me until 67.5 years old. 

 

6 minutes ago, Bad324 said:

I'm so glad someone trying to find funds to get a bike for me has now entered 3 threads. We keep this going and someone might actually find $ to gift me for a bike

There you go @Bad324  Soon as John turns 67.5 you will have a bike. Congrats man!!

[Bad324]

Just now, Tonik said:

 

There you go @Bad324  Soon as John turns 67.5 you will have a bike. Congrats man!!

Well what a stroke of luck. I may actually have free time for myself when that happens too!

[ricer1]

Only 10 more years to wait!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bubba]

48 minutes ago, Bad324 said:

I'm so glad someone trying to find funds to get a bike for me has now entered 3 threads. We keep this going and someone might actually find $ to gift me for a bike

Unfortunately, you don't live anywhere me.  I'd be more than happy to offer up my '98 CBR600F3 for you to ride.  Mostly sits in the garage collecting dust--less than 3200 miles on the ODO.  Yes, I know that's a federal crime.  Just went thru and replaced the battery and tires, rebuilt the carbs and flushed the brake fluid, so it's not a beater.  You wanna figure out a way to get here, you can take it on the Fall Epic Ride and roll out with the SW OH crew.

...but no, it's not a gift.  And yes, you have to bring it back.  And no, I don't want a pool table.

[Tonik]

Paging @ScubaCinci

Joe, trailer this thing to the Epic Ride.  Brian can ride bitch on mine to get down to New Concord.

[Bad324]

I thank you all for the offers but if I was comfortable enough to ride a bike that wasn't mine I'd show up on whatever Ducati Pauly wasn't on

[drc32-0]

17 hours ago, Lawrence1 said:

 

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by drc32-0
Hit the wrong button on my phone

[Lawrence1]

Been busy gumpy boy moving my youngest son over to Ohio State today. This information has been out there for years but since you need spoonfed here you go;

 

How The Super Rich Avoid Paying Taxes

If you're one of the 1% of Americans who control over 40% of the country's wealth, life is full of choices. Among them -- how best to keep all that money away from the government? The U.S. economic system offers no shortage of loopholes allowing the ultra-rich to shortchange Uncle Sam.

Tax rates for those making >$1 million level out at 24%, then declines for those making >$1.5 million. Those making $10 million a year pay an average income tax rate of 19%. $70-$100 billion is the estimated tax revenue lost each year due to loopholes. So how exactly do the super rich hide that much money from the government every year?

1. Put It in the Freezer

• Trust Freezing: A way to transfer valuable assets to others (such as your children) while avoiding the federal estate tax.
• "Freeze" the value of assets many years before you plan to pass them on to exclude all asset appreciation from the estate, and any taxes.
• Popular method: Trade common for preferred stock.
• Problem: If you sell your common stock you might owe a large amount of capital gains tax.
• Solution: Trade your common stock for preferred stock, then put some of the preferred stock in a trust and live off the dividends.

2. Send It Overseas

• Tax havens: Registering your business or putting your money in an account in another country with lower taxes.
• ~$21 trillion is being hidden in offshore tax havens.
• David Bowie, U2 and the Rolling Stones have all benefited from tax havens at one time or another.
• Popular cash hideout: The Cayman Islands, home to >85,000 companies -- making it home to more registered organizations than people.

3. Stock It Up in Options

• By taking part of your compensation in stock options you can control when and if you pay taxes, since most options are only taxed when they are exercised.
• Execs who have opted for options: Howard Schultz (Starbucks), Fred Smith (FedEx), William Weldon (Johnson & Johnson) and many others.

4. Play Shell Games with It

• Shell company: A type of company that only exists on paper, allowing you to funnel money through it and avoid paying taxes.
• Has a legal existence but typically provides few or no actual products or services.
• Often used for buying and selling to avoid reporting international operations conducted, and avoid taxes on the profits.
• Shady business: Mitt Romney caught some flak for allegedly using a shell company in Bermuda to avoid taxes.

5. Swap It Out

• Equity swap: An agreement that allows 2 parties to exchange the gain and loss of assets without actually transferring ownership.
• The swap avoids transaction costs, and typically, local taxes on dividends.

6. Play Dodgeball with It

• Capital gains tax: A tax on the profits from a sale of non-inventory assets originally purchased for a lesser amount, such as stocks, bonds, property or precious metals.
• Popular loophole: Purchasing stock options, which sets the share price at a fixed rate, then borrowing money from an investment bank using the shares as collateral.
• The borrower then repays the loan either with money made with the money borrowed or by handing over the shares, avoiding the capital gains tax.

7. Go Corporate with It

• Problem: being in a higher income tax bracket has less tax advantages than being a corporation.
• Solution: You can incorporate your own personal brand, which allows you to: 1. Channel wages through a nominal "corporation"; 2. Pay yourself an interest-free wage; 3. Claim expenses; 4. Reduce your income taxes.
• Mitt Romney claimed the management fee of his corporation as a capital gain rather than income, reducing his tax rate significantly.

8. Kick It Down the Road

• You can put part of your payday in a deferred-compensation plan, instead of taking it all at once.
• This allows your earnings to continue growing tax-deferred for +10 years.
• 79% of CEOs at Fortune 100 companies were offered deferred compensation plans.

9. Give It Away

• Gift-giving and charitable donations are a real win-win: Avoid taxes and look and feel good doing it!
• Gifts to anyone of up to $13,000 are tax-excluded, with an unlimited exclusion for gifts given to a spouse.
• Allows you to circulate cash within the family as "gifts" while writing it off.
• Popular donation tactic: Deduct the fair market value of a donated item from your tax liability.
• Example: 1. Buy a sculpture for $1,000; 2. Have it appraised at $10,000 some years later; 3. Donate it and deduct the $10,000 from that year's taxable income.Score!

10. Make It Luxurious

• Owning a yacht or multiple homes aren't just status symbols -- they offer tax benefits as well!
• Popular earner: Claim your "second home"
• Spend at least 2 weeks of the year on your yacht, outfit it like a home, and categorize it as a second home for tax purposes.
• If the home's value appreciates over time, the profits from selling it can be considered capital gains and taxed at a lower rate than salary or other investment income.
• A second home can be rented for up to 2 weeks a year without requiring the owner to claim the rent as income 

BTW, I seen the thread "The stupid shit gump does", it reads like an episode of Jackass.

You ever seen Deliverance?

[Gump]

42 minutes ago, Lawrence1 said:

Been busy gumpy boy moving my youngest son over to Ohio State today. This information has been out there for years but since you need spoonfed here you go;

 

How The Super Rich Avoid Paying Taxes

If you're one of the 1% of Americans who control over 40% of the country's wealth, life is full of choices. Among them -- how best to keep all that money away from the government? The U.S. economic system offers no shortage of loopholes allowing the ultra-rich to shortchange Uncle Sam.

Tax rates for those making >$1 million level out at 24%, then declines for those making >$1.5 million. Those making $10 million a year pay an average income tax rate of 19%. $70-$100 billion is the estimated tax revenue lost each year due to loopholes. So how exactly do the super rich hide that much money from the government every year?

1. Put It in the Freezer

• Trust Freezing: A way to transfer valuable assets to others (such as your children) while avoiding the federal estate tax.
• "Freeze" the value of assets many years before you plan to pass them on to exclude all asset appreciation from the estate, and any taxes.
• Popular method: Trade common for preferred stock.
• Problem: If you sell your common stock you might owe a large amount of capital gains tax.
• Solution: Trade your common stock for preferred stock, then put some of the preferred stock in a trust and live off the dividends.

2. Send It Overseas

• Tax havens: Registering your business or putting your money in an account in another country with lower taxes.
• ~$21 trillion is being hidden in offshore tax havens.
• David Bowie, U2 and the Rolling Stones have all benefited from tax havens at one time or another.
• Popular cash hideout: The Cayman Islands, home to >85,000 companies -- making it home to more registered organizations than people.

3. Stock It Up in Options

• By taking part of your compensation in stock options you can control when and if you pay taxes, since most options are only taxed when they are exercised.
• Execs who have opted for options: Howard Schultz (Starbucks), Fred Smith (FedEx), William Weldon (Johnson & Johnson) and many others.

4. Play Shell Games with It

• Shell company: A type of company that only exists on paper, allowing you to funnel money through it and avoid paying taxes.
• Has a legal existence but typically provides few or no actual products or services.
• Often used for buying and selling to avoid reporting international operations conducted, and avoid taxes on the profits.
• Shady business: Mitt Romney caught some flak for allegedly using a shell company in Bermuda to avoid taxes.

5. Swap It Out

• Equity swap: An agreement that allows 2 parties to exchange the gain and loss of assets without actually transferring ownership.
• The swap avoids transaction costs, and typically, local taxes on dividends.

6. Play Dodgeball with It

• Capital gains tax: A tax on the profits from a sale of non-inventory assets originally purchased for a lesser amount, such as stocks, bonds, property or precious metals.
• Popular loophole: Purchasing stock options, which sets the share price at a fixed rate, then borrowing money from an investment bank using the shares as collateral.
• The borrower then repays the loan either with money made with the money borrowed or by handing over the shares, avoiding the capital gains tax.

7. Go Corporate with It

• Problem: being in a higher income tax bracket has less tax advantages than being a corporation.
• Solution: You can incorporate your own personal brand, which allows you to: 1. Channel wages through a nominal "corporation"; 2. Pay yourself an interest-free wage; 3. Claim expenses; 4. Reduce your income taxes.
• Mitt Romney claimed the management fee of his corporation as a capital gain rather than income, reducing his tax rate significantly.

8. Kick It Down the Road

• You can put part of your payday in a deferred-compensation plan, instead of taking it all at once.
• This allows your earnings to continue growing tax-deferred for +10 years.
• 79% of CEOs at Fortune 100 companies were offered deferred compensation plans.

9. Give It Away

• Gift-giving and charitable donations are a real win-win: Avoid taxes and look and feel good doing it!
• Gifts to anyone of up to $13,000 are tax-excluded, with an unlimited exclusion for gifts given to a spouse.
• Allows you to circulate cash within the family as "gifts" while writing it off.
• Popular donation tactic: Deduct the fair market value of a donated item from your tax liability.
• Example: 1. Buy a sculpture for $1,000; 2. Have it appraised at $10,000 some years later; 3. Donate it and deduct the $10,000 from that year's taxable income.Score!

10. Make It Luxurious

• Owning a yacht or multiple homes aren't just status symbols -- they offer tax benefits as well!
• Popular earner: Claim your "second home"
• Spend at least 2 weeks of the year on your yacht, outfit it like a home, and categorize it as a second home for tax purposes.
• If the home's value appreciates over time, the profits from selling it can be considered capital gains and taxed at a lower rate than salary or other investment income.
• A second home can be rented for up to 2 weeks a year without requiring the owner to claim the rent as income 

BTW, I seen the thread "The stupid shit gump does", it reads like an episode of Jackass.

You ever seen Deliverance?

Pfft....Nothing wrong with any of those except loyalty to country for #2. Any of us can do the same things. So I don't know how exactly the Corporations or top earners are doing anything someone else can't. No idea where there 24% came from.

1. Capital gains tax is BS to begin with. Why wouldn't you?

3. very common

4. I have one

5. This is done all the time.

6.Who wouldn't

8. No brainer

9. Really? You worked all your life and want to gift something to your children. Screw gift tax, estate tax and capital gains. It's $14,000 annually now by the way. I don't know who would support this or have an issue finding legal ways to get it around it. They say it was designed to keep the rich from getting richer but it's imply a revenue generator like paying taxes when buying a used car.

10. O wow! you can rent it for two weeks and not claim it as income, Holy smokes! What a loophole.

IMO, you have to be smart enough to take advantage of it. And the fact is high earners and corporations pay a shit ton of taxes. That whole article can kiss my ass. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Gump

[motocat12]

6 hours ago, Gump said:

Not one mention of "how" corporations are actually cheating on taxes with loop holes. Not a damn one. Just fear that they are. Friggin myth.

 

Corporate inversions it;s all the rage. Burger King is no longer US based. (10 nuggets for  $1.49) 

[Gump]

2 minutes ago, motocat12 said:

Corporate inversions it;s all the rage. Burger King is no longer US based. (10 nuggets for  $1.49) 

Selecting a country with lower tax rates. Shocker. Don't tax the crap out of the US companies and maybe it wouldn't happen.

[Bubba]

@Lawrence1 I had to respond to your post, altho I know it's a loser's game to debate shit like this on the internet...but hey, it's icky out and I'm not riding today, so...

Almost all of the "rich people ploys" you've listed above are available to average folks as well, and may even benefit them to a larger percentage basis since there are income caps that phase out some of the more well-known tax dodges like IRA/401-K contributions.  I'm old and have been retired for 10 years, but I worked for 37 years and used most of the above tools to get where I am today.  Now, lest you lump me in with the 1%--which maybe I am based on total net worth--I worked at an average hourly wage my entire career.  Started out making $88/week--that's gross, not take home--in 1969 and was making about $60K gross when I retired in 2006.  A decent salary, no doubt, but nowhere near the stuff of an investment banker.  I started putting money into the stock market in 1971 and have contributed to a retirement account ever since, expanding to both a traditional and a Roth IRA when the opportunity was given by the IRS.  I've bought and sold 5 houses over the years, making money on each one and reinvesting the value in the next one.  With the exception of incorporating or moving money off-shore, I've done something of the kind in nearly everyone of your numbered list.

1) Doesn't matter whether you sell common or preferred stock, you pay taxes--either ST or LT capital gain--on the difference between cost basis and market value at the time of sale.  I happen to live on the dividends from my stock investments and pay both federal and state tax on the amount yearly.

2)  Didn't do this, although I have vacationed in the Bahamas once or twice...

3) Never got stock options either, but you can damn well be sure I would have taken advantage of them if offered.

4) The few obscenely rich folks who may take advantage of this unusual and obscure ploy typically get nailed to the wall sooner or later.  We're talking Securities and Exchange Commission stuff here.

5) Everyone who has ever sold a house and rolled the gains into their next abode have used this dodge.  The gain is eventually taxed when the appreciated property is sold, with the exception of a primary residence.

6) Anyone can do this.  Use the equity in your house to purchase stocks and use the dividends to pay the second mortgage.  This is actually pretty damn hard to do if you think about it, and risky as hell, but more power to you if you want to walk that line.

7)  Ordinary folks do this everyday.  Become a landlord and buy rental property.  It's a lot of work and headache, but pretty damn profitable over the long haul.

8)  I did the exact same thing every year when I redirected a percentage of my earnings to a 401-K or IRA and paid zero tax on the contribution amount.

9) I gift my kids money every year.  They're in their 30s and 40s and have their own kids and mortgages and are busting their asses to make it.  The money is tax-free to them BECAUSE I'VE ALREADY PAID TAX ON IT.  Not sure how this is dodge.  When I donate to a charity, I do gift the highly appreciated stock and get a write-off for the full market amount.  I bought the stock decades ago and paid far less per share, but money was "more valuable" then.  You know, inflation and all that.  See how that works?

10)  This is available to everyone.  You don't have to be rich to get this deduction.  I had a crappy old river cruiser that I paid $10K for.  It had a galley and a cabin and a potty.  It would have qualified for the second home mortgage deduction if I had taken out a loan to buy it.  The fact that neither you nor I can afford a yacht or a vacation home in Aspen isn't a sign that those who can afford these things are tax cheats.  Your whine sounds a bunch like sour grapes.  Get over it--life isn't fair.

[Connie14]

Every time that I receive a notice for a new posting in this thread, the same thoughts always enter my mind:

The debate on paying their fair share takes attention from the fact the the federal government has grown significantly faster than the rate of inflation.  

The government will never have enough money.  They will continue to spend ever increasing amounts with impunity. (See every socialist nation in the history if the world).

The national debt has nearly doubled under the current administration, and the costs to service the debt will increase significantly in the future. (Not happy with republicans on this issue either).

The government cannot create wealth without taking from somebody else first.

Rant over.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Connie14

[drc32-0]

About every three or four months OR has one of these winey ass tax threads and no one ever seems to get to the root cause...the off shoring of the Amercan manufacturing base during the eighties and nineties.That gutted the middle class and the American tax base at the same time.The same winey ass people that cried about union workers making too much back then are the same folks crying about taxes now.Who did you think would pick up the tax burden when all those good jobs went to socialist China?You got what you wanted,go to Walmart and buy your socialist made shit,pay your taxes and be happy.

[Tonik]

1 minute ago, drc32-0 said:

About every three or four months OR has one of these winey ass tax threads and no one ever seems to get to the root cause...the off shoring of the Amercan manufacturing base during the eighties and nineties.That gutted the middle class and the American tax base at the same time.The same winey ass people that cried about union workers making too much back then are the same folks crying about taxes now.Who did you think would pick up the tax burden when all those good jobs went to socialist China?You got what you wanted,go to Walmart and buy your socialist made shit,pay your taxes and be happy.

I love you man.  In a non-homo way.  Not that there is anything wrong with that.

I would only add, do you tax cutters and social program cutters understand that the kids you abandon today are the adults that will rape your wife and steal all you shit later on.  And after that you get to pay a boatload extra to keep them in jail. Unless they shoot you just before they rape your wife.  In that case you don't have to pay anymore.

 

[Bubba]

28 minutes ago, Connie14 said:

They will continue to spend ever increasing amounts without impunity.

@Connie14 I think you actually meant "with impunity"

Sorry.  Occasional grammar Nazi here.

Your point about the government spending every dime we give them plus a couple more we haven't yet is well taken.  The folks who are on the "free medical" and the "free college education" bandwagon are either the ones who don't pay any income tax or they're so clueless that they don't understand the government doesn't actually HAVE any money other than what the citizens give them in the way of taxes...or that they print out of thin air with no monetary value basis.  Check out the National Debt clock and pay particular attention to the far lower right corner, where the current dollar-to-gold value is nearly $8000/oz.  Current market value on gold is approximately $1350/oz.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Bubba]

29 minutes ago, Tonik said:

I would only add, do you tax cutters and social program cutters understand that the kids you abandon today are the adults that will rape your wife and steal all you shit later on.  And after that you get to pay a boatload extra to keep them in jail. Unless they shoot you just before they rape your wife.  In that case you don't have to pay anymore.

Tonik:  Not sure if you're just trolling, or if you're really so far west of left you can't drink beer right-handed....

You got it wrong dude, at least where I'm concerned.  I'm all for making the rich pay for the easy life the US allows them.  I'm also in favor of the general US population making sacrifices for the liabilities we have incurred because of the war efforts our politicians sanctioned.  The nation sacrificed during WWII with rationing, war bonds, and tax rates that were set to 94% for the top earners to help make the war a success (and as high as 91% as late as 1963).  http://taxfoundation.org/sites/default/files/docs/fed_individual_rate_history_nominal.pdf  Other than sending off our own children to fight what seems to be a religious war in the Middle East, our/my generation hasn't been asked or required to make any sacrifices at all.  

And I'm in favor of a minimum wage that's livable, but by that, I don't mean livable as in high-end cell phones and cable TV and a luxury SUV in the driveway.  I'm also in favor of requiring those who are unfortunate enough to need publicly-funded monetary assistance--whether temporary or permanent--to make some level of effort to give back, whether it be volunteerism in the community or some other contribution.  Nor am I advocating the abandonment of poor kids.  I AM opposed to sanctioning the birthing of illegitimate babies as a means to earning money.

What you/we are effectively doing is penalizing our children's and our grandchildren's future security and welfare for the excesses of our lifestyle today, with no thought of what happens when the bills come due.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Bubba

[Bubba]

@drc32-0 "The same winey ass people"

It's 'whiney-ass people'... unless you're talking about the House Wives of Beverly Hills.  And you've puked up the same whiney-ass and totally invalid argument about the loss of union jobs being the reason the US is in the fix it's in now.  Yeah, lots of jobs were moved out of the US, but it was because of insanely high wages and benefits being paid for what was unskilled labor.  Oh, let's not ignore the technology revolution that replaced human hands doing repetitive tasks with robots.  The unions were useful organizations back in the early days of the industrial revolution, but have long ago ceased to be of value to the bulk of the American labor force.

[Tonik]

24 minutes ago, Bubba said:

Tonik:  Not sure if you're just trolling, or if you're really so far west of left you can't drink beer right-handed....

Not really trolling, what I do is take my position to the extreme to make my point. I am a right winger, but when it comes to social programs, helping the poor and the sick I am somewhat liberal. We are  Americans and that's what we do, we take care of each other. I have no problem paying a bit extra in taxes to make that happen.

In your post you mentioned a reasonable minimum wage, in the post just above you mentioned the unions making too much and thats why manf. jobs left.

Our current minimum wage is probably 10 times higher than what the factory workers in China make. So even if we cut the GM workers to 8 bucks an hour those jobs are not coming back and would have left even if they were making 8 bucks an hour 20 years ago instead of 40.

 

[Bubba]

We are not so far apart in our thinking, then, although the problem we have is who/where/how long to draw the line at poor/sick/helpless.  Subsidizing generations of welfare families is not an acceptable line to draw, IMHO.  As for my comments on a livable wage, either I stated my viewpoint poorly or you misunderstood.  I'm not advocating that American workers be paid a wage that is comparable to those in China.  The only way this would work is to devalue the US economy to a retroactive level of 50-75 years ago, which is obviously neither tenable nor desirable.  My point about the unions is that, during the time period in the 70s and 80s that jobs first began to move to the underdeveloped countries, the unions were at their MOST POWERFUL PERIOD OF INFLUENCE, which suggests it's counterintuitive to put the blame solely on the industrial magnates.  Thus, it is reasonable to theorize that the unrealistic and unattainable demands made by the strong unions during that time period had a great effect on what happened to the manufacturing industry in the US.

I firmly believe that we will see a time in our not too distant future when the issues of over-promised and under-funded Social Security benefits, Medicare/Medicaid benefits, and pensions for public and government retirees will create a huge drag on the economy and taxes will need to be raised dramatically.  Again, we have merely passed along the problems created by us over the last 10-20 years to our descendants.  I doubt they will thank us kindly for the cluster f--k that we leave them.