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JackImpact

Knocking with clutch out

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So I tried my hand at adjusting my valves. Unsure if done correctly as the instructions I could find were a bit hard to understand and the images hard to see. Below is an IMGUR album of the alternator case cover off because the instructions told me to adjust it to line up the TDK and the timing but I dont understand what I am looking at and did my best. After putting it back together I felt it was more responsive when riding but unsure if this sound is new or was present before. Its a knocking like sound and feel that is most present with the clutch out, with the clutch in it goes away. Feels and sounds like its coming from right side engine cover where clutch is. Also below are videos of it. The videos are in order from most recent, and the fourth is from the night before I did the valves. Also carbs were cleaned. 

http://imgur.com/a/p66Mi

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have owned multiple CBRs over the years and just about every single 1 made a noise with the clutch out in neutral. When I pull the clutch in it goes away. I even took my 93 to the Honda shop and mechanic told me he felt it was just the clutch rattling in the basket and he would not worry about it. I never did anything about it and the bike had over 30k when I sold it with no issues. My 05 does it and I never worry about it either.

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Quit working on your bike. This is coming from a place of concern, not ridicule. You're lacking some fundamental abilities or knowledge and I fear that you may hurt your motor if you continue. Have an experienced mechanic look at your bike. 

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10 minutes ago, durk said:

I have owned multiple CBRs over the years and just about every single 1 made a noise with the clutch out in neutral. When I pull the clutch in it goes away. I even took my 93 to the Honda shop and mechanic told me he felt it was just the clutch rattling in the basket and he would not worry about it. I never did anything about it and the bike had over 30k when I sold it with no issues. My 05 does it and I never worry about it either.

I read similiar as well online. Just thought Id throw it out there for people to help me with since I am not sure I even did the valve check correctly. It did seem to actually ride really swell. 

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10 minutes ago, durk said:

I have owned multiple CBRs over the years and just about every single 1 made a noise with the clutch out in neutral. When I pull the clutch in it goes away. I even took my 93 to the Honda shop and mechanic told me he felt it was just the clutch rattling in the basket and he would not worry about it. I never did anything about it and the bike had over 30k when I sold it with no issues. My 05 does it and I never worry about it either.

This is from people clutching up wheelies. When you wind the motor up to 8k and dump the clutch, when that happens, the driveing plates are going very fast and they engage the driven plates which are going very slow. Those plates are keyed into slots in the basket and when that much torque is applied all at once, they deform the metal in those slots. Do it enough and you have widened the slots enough for the tabs to smack back and forth inside them. 

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So you didn't do any shimming changes, just checking clearances?  I think most of the noise may just be some timing chain slap at low revs, may need a little tensioner adjustment but let an experienced hand do that since it's hard to tell from just the vid audio.  The noise quiets down some when the clutch is disengage because you're taking additional rotating mass off of the engine.

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3 minutes ago, CrazySkullCrusher said:

This is from people clutching up wheelies. When you wind the motor up to 8k and dump the clutch, when that happens, the driveing plates are going very fast and they engage the driven plates which are going very slow. Those plates are keyed into slots in the basket and when that much torque is applied all at once, they deform the metal in those slots. Do it enough and you have widened the slots enough for the tabs to smack back and forth inside them. 

Dirtbikes are very prone to this as well.  I've never owned a used one that didn't have a notched basket.  

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1 minute ago, CrazySkullCrusher said:

This is from people clutching up wheelies. When you wind the motor up to 8k and dump the clutch, when that happens, the driveing plates are going very fast and they engage the driven plates which are going very slow. Those plates are keyed into slots in the basket and when that much torque is applied all at once, they deform the metal in those slots. Do it enough and you have widened the slots enough for the tabs to smack back and forth inside them. 

This may be true but this guy does not clutch up any wheelies. Occasionally may power up 1 in 1st but that's it. I have bought all my bikes used so I can not speak of what was done prior to my ownership. 

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2 minutes ago, Hellmutt said:

So you didn't do any shimming changes, just checking clearances?  I think most of the noise may just be some timing chain slap at low revs, may need a little tensioner adjustment but let an experienced hand do that since it's hard to tell from just the vid audio.  The noise quiets down some when the clutch is disengage because you're taking additional rotating mass off of the engine.

That noise isn't valve noise. I can hear the valves clicking because they're out of adjustment, then there's the knocking. That's not valves. Could be clutch basket, doesn't sound like chain slap and that bike should have either a hydraulic or spring type tensioner that should take up any slap, and surely there wouldn't be slap at idle when tension from the crank is constant. Maybe oil is overfilled and the hydraulic action between the discs is strong enough to make it slap around in the slots? Idk, but an experienced bike mechanic needs to lay hands on this bike.

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Don't think anyone is doing wheelies on this one. Mike of mikes bikes said he is a month out. Any other recommendations!

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5 minutes ago, durk said:

 I can not speak of what was done prior to my ownership. 

Clutch up wheelies were done prior to your ownership.

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10 minutes ago, JackImpact said:

I read similiar as well online. Just thought Id throw it out there for people to help me with since I am not sure I even did the valve check correctly. It did seem to actually ride really swell. 

I can't give any input on your valves. Just thought I'd share my past experiences with clutch rattle. I also own a kfx450r quad that the clutch rattles in the same manner. That clutch does get abused, however. I am not nice to my quad.

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Is the most important part here that the knocking doesn't seem to be coming from the valves or rocker arms?

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Is this a new sound or not? You seem unsure in your post. Seems like you would have heard it before even with valves clicking.  

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I have a spot open in my shop but idk how far away you are from massillon.

131 miles lol

I also don't own a truck.

Any idea on cost range? Valves checked. Few gaskets replaced. Carbs tuned and synced. Rejetted if needed. Might as well do oil. Oh and speedometer drive replaced.

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2 minutes ago, CrazySkullCrusher said:

That noise isn't valve noise. I can hear the valves clicking because they're out of adjustment, then there's the knocking. That's not valves. Could be clutch basket, doesn't sound like chain slap and that bike should have either a hydraulic or spring type tensioner that should take up any slap, and surely there wouldn't be slap at idle when tension from the crank is constant. Maybe oil is overfilled and the hydraulic action between the discs is strong enough to make it slap around in the slots? Idk, but an experienced bike mechanic needs to lay hands on this bike.

You would know more than I, but a hydro tensioner on a KZ305 seems overkill on Kawi's part - ratcheting tensioner makes more sense though.  I agree it's valvetrain is out of adjustment, but I had an old KZ550 that would make a similar knocking rattle below idle because my chain guides were worn down to the nubs ( 35k hard miles and neglect ) and the case slapping almost resembled his issue.

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Is this a new sound or not? You seem unsure in your post. Seems like you would have heard it before even with valves clicking.  

I tried listening to older videos and its hard to tell. Not the Same setup for recording or testing. It feels like checking valves made it smoother and maybe the knocking just sounds more present now.

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Chad you need to come over and hear it and ride it.

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1 minute ago, JackImpact said:

Chad you need to come over and hear it and ride it.

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Was going to recommend him.  He's pretty savvy, but not sure of his schedule - he's a busy guy most of the time.  Sorry I dont have the time for a while and I'm not near as knowledgeable

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I just got the service manual ordered on eBay. Pdf is hard to read. Skull how does the tdm work when checking valve clearenves?

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Jack is that bike a single cylinder bike? Not familiar with a kz305.

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So the service manual says the inlets are .16-.19 and exhaust is .21-.26. So I used the .15 .17 and made sure the .2 didn't fit. Then on the exhaust made sure the .22 and .25 fit and the .27 did not. How tight is it supposed to be between there when putting the feeler in? For me I did it so it's pretty tight and scraping the feeler

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I think I made them too tight.

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