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Does anybody have any nice detailed plans/pictures/diagrams of turbo bike setups, mostly the piping situation. Long story short I'm taking welding classes and am a man with a dream. You da bess, love you, thanks.

-D

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Pretty simple affair. The devil is in the details tho. Figure out where you can fit the turbo, make the exhaust go there, then dump the down pipe and waste gate to a muffler, figure out if you're gonna go blow thru or suck thru on the cold side first, then either put one huge carb on the cold side inlet and run the output to an intake manifold or put a filter on the inlet and fab up a box manifold that will feed 4 carbs. Don't forget to include the little dohickey on the cold side that opens the waste gate on the hot side or you'll overboost the motor and leave an ebay auction on the street behind you. There is also the complex formulas of afr's on and off boost, lowering the compression ratio of your motor so you can boost without detonation. Turbo-specific cams to capitalize on lift vs duration and lots and lots of test and tune to avoid turning your motor into a very loud an inefficient foundry.

But I totally want in on this.

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It won't be easy, but I want to do it! This will be more about the fab work (for me) than performance, so I'd be happy with limited boost. Looks like a ton of work the more research I do.

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Rather than lowering compression, wouldn't you rather increase octane? Just seems like you shouldn't have to fiddle with internal engine to add some turbo.

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Rather than lowering compression, wouldn't you rather increase octane? Just seems like you shouldn't have to fiddle with internal engine to add some turbo.

There are mechanical limits to the head gasket and studs. You don't want to find out what they are the dumb way. Over-boosting an engine that was engineered to be naturally aspirated will cause catastrophic failure no matter how much octane you use. Its not just about detonation.

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Didn't 2fat2fly turbo a zx11 some time back? 

Maybe he can add some info if he's even active these days

Edited by TheBrown57

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How does one reduce compression, shorter(?) Pistons. Been doing some research and it looks like piston size+empty cylinder space ÷ piston size(?) =your compression. I did read up a little on octane, which is my understanding reduces the probability of detonation. Also, rich mix=cooler temps. Amiright?

I'd love to get some pictures off of 2fat2fly. Google isn't very helpful, having a hard time wrapping my head around how you plug back into the intake. Like, does it plug the recycled exhaust in before or after the carb? Can I even use the stock carbs? Moving the carbs back to allow room for boost entrance seems like it would completely ruin the functionality of the carbs, and putting the exhaust back through the carb doesn't seem like a great idea either. I'm starting at square 1 here, so I won't be insulted by toddler talk as long as it ends up with me understanding how to vroom-vroom and whistle lol and again, not really looking for a huge performance improvement. Looking to pick up a basket case to work on all winter. I told my girlfriend it's a project to help me learn (hoping to make powersports a career), but in all reality I'm probably going to fall in love and keep it forever.

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You lower it by using shorter pistons (the prefered method) or shorter rods, or thicker head gasket or machining the heads so the chamber is bigger.  Your choices will be limited to what is available for your bike. With head gaskets...you could make your own.

 

GFL man.

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de-stroking comes with more problems than it's worth, unless you want to drop major coin.

Parts availability would not be a problem, there are many companies willing to make custom pistons and rods. Depending on bike you would be surprised what has already been engineered in boost ready pistons/rods. Cometic in Cleveland will make you any type of head gasket you want. Cams and cam/valve timing will also need to be tweeked to get the most out of boost. Carbs will cause you all kinds of problems...some will completely box them so the pressure is equal on overflows and vents compared to venturi pressure...the engineering for boosting a carb bike is way beyond this thread. Fuel injection makes it much easier.

Above you ask about how the exhaust gasses get put back into the motor...

The exhaust goes through a turbine and spins a shaft, the exhaust then goes out the tailpipe. The turbine shaft is connected to a compressor which takes fresh air, compresses the air and pressurizes the intake plenum. A waste gate controls how much pressure the plenum provides to the motor. Waste gate can be mechanical or electronic.

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You don't push the exhaust into the carbs jethro.

The exhaust gasses spin a turbine that shares a shaft with an impeller. The two have their own casings. As the exhaust gas enters the turbine it spins it and then exits through a pipe and hopefully a muffler. The turbine shaft in turn spins an impeller that draws in air, compresses it and forces it through a pipe into a manifold that is connected to the carbs.

Stock carbs will be an issue. At the very least you'll need bigger carbs and an in line fuel pump to deliver enough fuel to keep your mixture stoich. Unless they make a turbo cam for your motor you're going to have issues, typical cam grinds take advantage of overlap between intake and exhaust to make power at high rpm. With a boosted motor you don't need that overlap because at such high intake pressure you're more likely to blow lots of your intake charge right out of the exaust valves during those few degrees of overlap.

Then there's the issue of bottom end strength. The lateral loads on your rotating assembly will increase dramatically. Rods will stretch and bend. Crank journal bearings will deform. Engine temps will also soar as compressing air heats it up very quickly and burning more air and fuel causes more heat. Once you have all those problems taken care of you have to get the power to the wheel without smoking your clutch, breaking your transmission or your final drive.

I'm not saying it's impossible, or that you shouldn't do it. I am saying that this is not something a moderately skilled amateur is going to pull off, and if it's going to work AND last it will cost you 5 times as much as you estimate it will.

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If you are mostly doing it to do it and aren't in it to make huge power a stock motor in reasonable shape can probably handle a few pounds of boost.  The easiest route I have seen many do for inline engines is take the exhaust about where it normally collects into 1-2 anyway and put the turbo there.  Then plumb the intake pipe up the side into the intake area.  You would ditch the stock intake box and go straight to the intake runner.  Using a FI bike would be easier than a carb bike in my opinion. A V-twin makes it tougher because the exhaust exits are typically on opposite ends of the bike.  Which would necessitate the most custom plumbing. 

Edited by MichaelS

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Clearly the answer here is to just buy an H2 which is already supercharged and ready to go.

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I would just say if your really interested in doing it, go for it. We live in modern times where information, tools, and resources are readily available and abundant. 16 yr old kids are building their own race cars nowadays and with ease because Internet and because racecar.

All it takes is motivation, if you actually dig into it and try making solid progress you can easily get it done and learn a shit load along the way and polish your skills.

Definitely a good idea to start out with a cheapie ugly runner that someone wants out of their dusty shed. fix it, build it, blow it up, fix it again, or buy another. Doesn't take much investment to get your hands dirty.

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Didn't 2fat2fly turbo a zx11 some time back? 

Maybe he can add some info if he's even active these days

 

Yes he did, and it's a brute.   Visited him when he was working on it and he has built quite a demon out of a '00 ZX12R.  I recall he used ZX14 injectors and fabbed a lot of the build as well.   Not sure of the turbo size/brand, but he took his time and tested/tuned little by little -- think he's got it done now.   Here's a link to his build...

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-12r-forum/71354-my-zx12r-evolution-whats-going-fatcave-today.html'>http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-12r-forum/71354-my-zx12r-evolution-whats-going-fatcave-today.html

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Yes he did, and it's a brute. Visited him when he was working on it and he has built quite a demon out of a '00 ZX12R. I recall he used ZX14 injectors and fabbed a lot of the build as well. Not sure of the turbo size/brand, but he took his time and tested/tuned little by little -- think he's got it done now. Here's a link to his build...

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-12r-forum/71354-my-zx12r-evolution-whats-going-fatcave-today.html

Missing all the pics. Sad face....

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Missing all the pics. Sad face....

 

Then your stuff is broke, pics are there other than a couple in the third post.

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I tried to find that thread! I thought it might have been a ZX12 and not an 11 :p

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This is a big project for someone with little to no welding experience or fab experience.

Good luck op

Edited by rawlins87

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Thanks for the information guys! What a thread! Are there any FI bikes that don't come covered in plastic?

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B king. Fz6 fz1 599 cb1000r z1000 tl1000s bandit etc.... A properly boosted bandit will make 220 hp reliably. My cousins buddy has one. It's legit scary on the street when it comes up on the boost.

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CSC, what would I do without you? Let me keep a steady eye on Craig's list and hope something pops up. You-da-man.

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Here is a write up I did on a turbo install and some pointers to how. Special Thanks to John O'Hare for his knowledge and engineering he has done on his 750 gsx oil cooled turbo bike.
John has built himself after much work, thought and engineering. Not to mention many hrs research to make a Turbo 1990 gsxr 750 in a Bandit 600 frame. The bike is a great daily rider and has been rode many years with this install proof of how well his application was on the bike he has named Project Turbo Dragqueen. We will explain how it was done but first here is information for tuning a turbo bike.
Here is a link to help with your engineering and Turbocharger Compressor Calculations. You will be able to use this to find the perfect turbo size.
Here is a link to specific turbos on the market along with maps and installation information.
http://turbochargerspecs.blogspot.com/
Here is a tuning manual to help get intake exhaust and the theoretical perfect installation of the exhaust and intake manifolds. In the real world especially on stock framed bikes the best you can do it get close or just make it fit but, the calculations are here in manual.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ynso8xyirx4mb1l/Racing%20Engines%20101.pdf?dl=0
 
Now we will proceed with John's install. He bought a Garret T 25  .70 ar VF10 turbo (from a subaru legacy, the estate version of the impreza car} on E bay for 49 pounds delivered. The T 25 is large and is better suited for a 1100 or 1200 cc bike to spool up at 2000 rpm. On johns bike it spools up at 5000 rpm and makes for a bike he can ride with good fuel economy not being in the boost at 80 mph with his wife and camping gear on the back. Having the same performance as the stock bike in fuel usage then. It has a A/R rating of .70. A drag bike or super high performance street 750 bike will use a A/R of .48 or a GT20 / T 20 Turbo or a large size GT 15 / T 15 depending on manufacture. All of the turbo sizes mentioned can be bought new on EBay for under 350$ each.
John's  T25 he bought:
SaabT25Turbo.jpg
 
He picked a inter cooler off EBay for 10 pounds off a RS which is a small turbo charged Ford car in Europe for 6 pounds. 
SN855377.jpg
He made a exhaust header to connect the 4 cyls and heat wrapped it. The heat wrap is not a necessity but does remove heat away from where he mounted his oil coolers for them to function.
SN859430.jpg
SN859427.jpg
SN859428.jpg
 
The turbo was clocked to be at its best position for his install. By Clocking he took the assembly apart and rotated the intake and exhaust housings so, the intake and exhaust can be run. This is simple to do just remove the bolts between them and rotate to your correct position and bolt back together.
Tubbyrebuild09.jpg
 
Here is where and how he mounted his:
SN859465.jpg
He bought his turbo gaskets and air filter from P&P for 26 pounds but, there is many manufactures of these and can be found on EBay for similar pricing.
filter.jpg
gasket.jpg
He had to drill the air filter to run the hose thru to connect the actuator for boost to the intake plenum. John runs 7 psi boost actuation perfect with no damage for a stock motor. Actuator can be bought external and adjustable but, I have had turbo vehicles like this before and at some point you teak them just a little more until a head gasket blows. It is possible to run 14 psi boost but, modifications will need made to the engine being, compression rings machined into block for heads, heads ported and polished intake and exhaust, cam change and possible re timing of the cam with ignition controller.
A picture of the hose out plenum on intake side. His finger is pointing to the blue hose connection there:
SN859770.jpg
 
This picture shows the other connection point for hose for the actuator:
SN859771.jpg
 
He bought AN fittings for the routing of the oil lines for about 60 pounds.
Pictures of some of them for reference:
oillinebits1.jpg
oillinebits2.jpg
 
Also a M12x1.5 banjo fitting for the oil connection for pressure at the turbo.
oillinebits3.jpg
 
He drilled and tapped the pressure test port bolt for 10x1.5mm fitting down from the 16 mm so he did not have to put a flow restriction in line and here he will feed the turbo oil cooling.
The 16 mm bolt is directly under ignition side cover on right side of the bike.
It can be seen here in this picture with John's pointer finger on it:
SN850332.jpg
 
By hand and with a lathe that will not do .002 cut passes in steel he made the mount to the turbo for the oil cooling pressure side. You could by hand make this part by making solid block that bolts and takes a AN fitting. It can be done with all hand tools. 
SN850337.jpg
 
Hand made the gasket here out gasket material.
SN850339.jpg
 
Showing it mounted and the location on turbo.
SN850341.jpg
 
He drilled and threaded for a AN fitting for the return line from turbo oil cooling in the right side clutch cover so the oil returning would hit the spring plate not wash the clutches. Run with 1/2 braided line.
SN850377.jpg
 
Pictures of these hose run on turbo:
SN850483.jpg
SN850486.jpg
SN851141.jpg
 
On his lathe he made a oil catch for the breather tube. The crank case pressure will be raised slightly because of the turbo so, to keep from having oil drenched all over your bike you install the catch canister. 
The top housing for canister turned on lathe out a piece of solid billet aluminum. It has the breather holes drilled in it.
Also seen here is the bottom cap for the canister.
SN850398.jpg
 
He installed a couple o rings to seal the canister and the all thread rod is what holds the final assembly together.
SN850400.jpg
 
Using a polishing sponge for his painting operations he trimmed it to be a filter to put in bottom of canister to remove any particulates of dirt coming from the engine breather tube on top valve cover.
SN850397.jpg
 
He welded a couple fittings to a piece of stainless exhaust tube for the hose plumbing. The stainless exhaust tube is the main body of the canister held together by all thread between the 2 end caps.
SN850404.jpg
SN850406.jpg
 
He drilled and tapped a M6 allen bolt in the bottom for a drain of the canister.
SN850408.jpg
 
Showing the final assembly:
SN850409.jpg
SN850410.jpg
 
Using a piece of pipe he threaded the oil fill cap for the return line from the breather oil catch canister to motor.
SN850411.jpg
SN850412.jpg
 
Showing mounting of the canister on bike.
SN850455.jpg
 
Showing his mounting bracket for turbo to the head on the engine.
SN850524.jpg
 
The exhaust he made for bike.
SN850665.jpg
SN850651.jpg
 
The dump valve for the intake in case of a back fire and for protection of engine was added he made the tubing for it scavenged from a washing machine.
SN850432.jpg
 
He mounted the intercooler for the air intake off the engine head bolts.
SN851507.jpg
SN851530.jpg
SN851553.jpg
SN851579.jpg
 
Then connected the dump valve after between the intercooler and air box for carburetors. This is also the pressure reference for the fuel pump. the small blue hose coming out top goes to the fuel regulator.
SN851503.jpg
SN851497.jpg
 
Using a old piece of water pump hose and some thin exhaust tube he made the connections air intake connections.
SN851584.jpg
SN851583.jpg
SN851580.jpg
 
A fuel regulator was installed.
fuelregarrived.jpg
Malpassiregulator.jpg
 
Fuel line plumbing
regfittin2.jpg
regfittin3.jpg
 
The adjuster for fuel pressure on regulator. He needed 2 psi so adjustments where made to unit.
fuelregmods1.jpg
fuelregmods2.jpg
fuelregmods3.jpg
 
He opened housing and cut the spring until the cap fit under its own weight then tuned with adjuster screw. About a spring coil and a half.
fuelregmods4.jpg
 
The fuel pressure guage to tune the regulator.
plenumoff2805115.jpg
 
A boost gauge was bought and installed with vacuum shown also to help set up the dump valve. With the boost gauge he also received silicone piping and replaced all the old water piping.
SN853305.jpg
binditboostgaugeon1.jpg
 
He ended up changing to a fluid filled boost gauge so the needle would not bounce when riding.
newboostgaugeere1.jpg
 
For 50 pounds he rebuilt the turbo with a rebuild kit.
Turbokit.jpg
Tubbyrebuild06.jpg
 
A intake manifold was made for the carburetors.
plenumoff2805114.jpg
Bandit0208111.jpg
Bandit0208112.jpg
 
Pictures of Finished bike.
Ready4photoshoot7.jpg
Ready4photoshoot1.jpg
Ready4photoshoot6.jpg
Bindit1strun2.jpg
Bindit1strun1.jpg
 
John has spent years building this and collecting this knowledge. He has given the permission for this to be written up and the sharing of his engineering. He lives on a island with no local auto parts shop and owns very minimum tools. It takes months for parts to arrive threw the mail. His work is proof a man with persistence and drive with nothing but the want can make a turbo bike with very minimum amount of money.
PLEASE if you share any or even just a picture from this be sure to include a reference to John with the image or full posting. John owns the copyright for all of these pictures and has been very gracious to share his hard earned knowledge with us!
 
Here is the link to John's build thread at a couple forums he is on if you want to review for yourself.
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/showthread.php?10507-Project-Budget-Turbo-Dragqueen
http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33459
 
John has many other skills and is know for his Custom Paint and Air Brush work. If you would like to see more of that here is links to his business sites Pitstop Paint:
http://www.pitstop-paint.co.uk/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pitstop-Paint/123560924382707

scematic of turbo systems
 
stealth.gif
TurboSystemComplex.jpg

 

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Customize it, this is amazing. Can't thank you enough. The dream is postponed by my need for a new car, but this will be the greatest resource when. I dive into it. Thank you!

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