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zx3vfr

another black child killed by police.

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Crappy situation all around.

Food for thought...how young is too young to shoot a suspect in a park?

If you're old enough to act like a thug you're old enough to get blasted. If it wasn't this cop it would be a rival gang in the next couple years

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If you're old enough to act like a thug you're old enough to get blasted. If it wasn't this cop it would be a rival gang in the next couple years

Yeah, because every kid who plays with a toy gun joins a gang.

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I agree with Bubba.. They shouldn't have drove right up on him... Justifiable shooting based solely on what I can see in video, but horrible police work that escalated it. Officer driving the car should not be employed any more.

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If you're old enough to act like a thug you're old enough to get blasted. If it wasn't this cop it would be a rival gang in the next couple years

 

Yeah, because every kid who plays with a toy gun joins a gang.

 

I'm definitely standing with Magz on this one.  zx3vfr is painting with a pretty broad brush….

 

No evidence the kid was associated with gangs in any way or that his parents were negligent.

 

12 year old kid is still young enough to be playing in a park with a toy gun.

Edited by Bubba

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An orange piece of plastic on the end of the toy gun (kind of like the one required by law) could have prevented this whole tragedy. It is sad situation. Ferguson, MO not so much.

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An orange piece of plastic on the end of the toy gun (kind of like the one required by law) could have prevented this whole tragedy. It is sad situation. Ferguson, MO not so much.

No, an orange tip wouldn't have changed this event, the police never saw the tip.

Also, there are real guns with orange tips. 1449oo6.jpg

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You are right. There is no way that an orange tip on a plastic gun could have helped prevent this. Manufacturers put them on the play guns for their love of the color orange. Troll on.

Edited by Connie14

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While taking my ccw class in OH the instructor at the police dept said they have confiscated all kind of guns, even pink guns that look like barbie toys, guns painted bright orange, whatever... People painting them so they look like toys and draw less attention... That plastic tip wouldn't have mattered... I'm just so confused why cops roll up guns drawn ready to go and the kid doesn't listen... Is there audio from this? Interested to see what cops yelled at him... If it was "drop the gun" then maybe the kid got confused and went to get it to drop it... But if it's hands up, that's a pretty clear order to follow

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You are right. There is no way that an orange tip on a plastic gun could have helped prevent this. Manufacturers put them on the play guns for their love of the color orange. Troll on.

Again, the police opened fire within seconds of arriving on scene, at no point during that time was the "tip" of the gun visible. Therefore an orange tip wouldn't have changed shit. Also, as noted there are plenty of real guns that are brightly colored and/or have orange tips.

Also, airsoft, bb, pellet, and paint ball guns are all exempt from the "orange tip" law.

Edited by magley64

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Whoever said "all cops should have cameras" is going to get their wish.

The one good thing that might come out of this incident is that the chief of police has said that all Cleveland officers will have body cameras by the end of January 2015.

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Whoever said "all cops should have cameras" is going to get their wish.

The one good thing that might come out of this incident is that the chief of police has said that all Cleveland officers will have body cameras by the end of January 2015.

 

I hate that it has to come to a big brother tactic of thist nature, but if it could possibly exonerate or prove the guilt of either party involved, then I reckon it might very well be a good thing. 

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I don't think its a big brother tactic. I think it's completely reasonable. The amount of power and authority given to police and their discretion, I absolutely believe everything should be recorded. Body cams and dash cams on every officer/vehicle. Not even to just protect from abusive cops, but we're all human and make discretionary mistakes and lapses in judgement. It's a good system to protect everybody involved and keep things a little more honest than they might otherwise be.

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Until the camera gets accidently shut off and you get beaten for recording a cop

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...I absolutely believe everything should be recorded. Body cams and dash cams on every officer/vehicle ... but we're all human and make discretionary mistakes and lapses in judgement. It's a good system to protect everybody....

 

This seems the most likely path that will be taken after the recent spate on cop shootings, but cameras can be a double-edged sword.  There will always be grey areas with every person-to-person interaction, which once captured on digital media can be used both for and against each party.  Let's make the premise that everything in life is recorded.  A busy mom or dad forgets the kid in the car seat and a child dies in a hot car.  Almost certainly a horrible accident, but do we indict?  A teenager reaches for something in his car and crosses the center line and kills another driver.  Accidental or indictable?  A hunter drops his rifle and kills his hunting partner.  Accident or negligent homicide?  In all these incidents, a camera would show when and where things went terribly wrong, but would it prove innocence or guilt?  Show malice of forethought?  Record a human lapse of judgement?  Who's gonna interpret the data?  From which viewpoint will the person behind camera be judged?  Can we realistically achieve a sufficient level of training for police to ensure no error will ever be made?  Human beings are susceptible to making mistakes, and yet do we hold an officer accountable to a higher standard of 'infallibility' than we do ordinary people?

Edited by Bubba
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Nothing is perfect and there isn't one silver bullet to stop this problem,but I read or heard a stat that police body cameras reduce the incidents of escalating violence by 30-40%.If that is even close to being accurate it would be worth the cost.

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I'm definitely standing with Magz on this one.  zx3vfr is painting with a pretty broad brush….

 

No evidence the kid was associated with gangs in any way or that his parents were negligent.

 

12 year old kid is still young enough to be playing in a park with a toy gun.

 

 

Here is the full 8 minute video. At about the 0:47 mark, he comes back into frame waving a gun at someones face. The following is a picture of the airsoft gun in the evidence box that was being used that day. There is a line between playing with a toy gun in a park and menacing.

 

http://i.imgur.com/smE1B8o.jpg

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Oh believe me….I get it.  If I was the cop, I wouldn't want to face that 'piece' down not knowing it was a toy.  More to my earlier post, I'm not blaming the shooter.  With the clarity of 20:20 hindsight, I think a less abrupt approach by the officer driving the patrol car could have possibly prevented the tragedy.  Still convinced it could have been avoided with a more judicious approach.  I've seen the entire video posted previously, and while the kid appeared to be aggressive, he hadn't done anything more than bluster.  I don't think a personal video cam worn by the cop would provide any additional information to vindicate the cop.

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Hmmm.  Interesting rant.  What exactly does it mean?  The world is full of pussies and thugs, and the only thing keeping them apart is the cops?  I'm conflicted….

 

I'm with you on the 'fewer cops' idea, tho, especially when I'm hooning the backwoods.

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That's how it was back in the day... But times change... Now a days you got little kids seeing murderers, gang members, "peaceful protectors", etc being glorified by the media and the culture we live in... You got kids this age already out there killing people.. You never know. Not my job to investigate, that's what police are for. It's funny... This reminds me of the trayvon martin situation... That time people were saying he should have let police handle it, but now you're saying citizens need to handle it before calling people... Yea there's a slight age gap, but not much. Idk about you, but if I see someone pointing a 1911 at people, I'm not going to be the one investigating it.

People afraid to get hurt but not afraid to call in others to get hurt.... Disagree. People afraid of getting hurt so they call in professionals with the training and equipment to handle these situations. I'm not a cop. It's not my duty to serve and protect. I'm going to mind my own business, I'm not going to confront someone who is brandishing a firearm if they aren't a direct threat.

I wonder how this would have gone down if this kid had got killed by one of the people he was aiming it at. There would be so much outrage. "why didn't that person just keep walking and leave him alone. If they hadn't confronted him they wouldn't have felt threatened"... Sounds familiar.

Edited by Steve Butters

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Hey Bubba...I was going back through this thread and I looked to see who who gave you a negative rep on post 47.

Hell,it was me.

I must of hit it by mistake on my phone.Sorry.

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NP.  Hell, I didn't even notice; I never give any thought to that anyway.  Pretty sure the only folks that pay attention to the negs are the moderators.

 

Honestly, I didn't know you could follow who gives out the +'s and -'s.  Good to know, tho--I can start my stalking campaign immediately….

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Wow, "driver cop" had just cost the city 100,000 in a police brutality suit. "Shooter cop" was just fired from independence police department for lack of maturity and composure around firearms, and his feelings that rules are optional.

What kind of shitty officers does the city employ?

Edited by magley64

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