another black child killed by police.

[zx3vfr]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/24/cleveland-shot-boy/19471925/

Well hay dumb dumb when they tell you to put your hands up you should probably do it.

Waiting for the weather to clear up for the protests to start.

[Tpoppa]

Apparently this was caught on video, which has not yet been released.   

Edited November 24, 2014 by Tpoppa

[zx3vfr]

I'm interested to see. Some reports say he reached for it others say he didn't. But the so called airsoft looked an awful lot like a 1911 minus the hindged trigger.

[Casper]

I'm interested to see. Some reports say he reached for it others say he didn't. But the so called airsoft looked an awful lot like a 1911 minus the hindged trigger.

 

The orange safety tip had been removed as well, making it look even more so like a real gun. 

[Pokey]

Once again......stupid hurts "or worse".

[jbot]

that is shitty.

[magley64]

12...

[zx3vfr]

Mamma was a model citizen. Armed robbery, Assualt and drug trafficking.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/lawyer_representing_tamir_rice.html

Scum bag lawyer looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

[redkow97]

Scum bag lawyer looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

Ambitious entrepreneur. Would you prefer he be on public assistance? ;-)

This will blow over quickly. The Cleveland PD has learned from Ferguson. LOTS of transparency and diplomacy on their Facebook page.

[magley64]

This will blow over quickly. The Cleveland PD has learned from Ferguson. LOTS of transparency and diplomacy on their Facebook page.

Also, cleveland is not the powder keg that Ferguson is. The police force and legal officials don't have the same stigma of a lopsided legal system.

[zx3vfr]

Well they shut down the shoreway. Good for them. To bad a mack trucks don't have throttles designed by toyota

[redkow97]

I support their right to protest, but I have no idea what action they want taken, and I think the protestors made a lot more enemies than friends this afternoon.

Inconveniencing the people you're trying to persuade to join you is not great tact...

[magley64]

Holy shit, anyone else see the video? Officer claims he told the boy to drop the weapon 3 times, but he fired shots within 2 seconds of opening the door?

[imprez55]

Holy shit, anyone else see the video? Officer claims he told the boy to drop the weapon 3 times, but he fired shots within 2 seconds of opening the door?

 

No audio, so its hard to corroborate from the surveillance tapes alone. What I saw: cops drive up, kid reaches for gun in waistband, cop shoots, kid falls with gun landing next to him, cop that shot freaks out and fails to secure area or attend to the kid. Regardless of anything else happening, the suspect who might have had a gun and was pointing it at people in a park, reached into his waistband as soon as the cops rolled up and started exiting the car. The cop shot quick because the kid reached for the "weapon" quick. 

[zx3vfr]

Holy shit, anyone else see the video? Officer claims he told the boy to drop the weapon 3 times, but he fired shots within 2 seconds of opening the door?

No he did not claim he said drop the weapon. He said hands in the air 3 times.

[Cdubyah]

So I'm gonna pose this question.

How would you like the Police to react when they get calls of a person waving a gun at people in a park?

 

Police now have to be trained for active shooter situations. When they receive the call of a person with a gun, they roll in hot. Expecting there to be an active shooter.

When they roll up on that person with the gun, toy or not (because the caller didn't specify) they identify the threat. Then stop that threat when that person reaches for his weapon.

 

That is what they have been trained to do. Stop the threat with the information they have been given.

 

Now lets change the parmeters a bit.

Cops get the call of a gunman in the park. They roll up, shout at the person to place there hands in the air. The officers don't react when a gun is pulled from the waistband (toy or not). That person then proceeds to fire off a few rounds before being stopped by the police. One of those rounds finds it's way to a baby carriage, and kills an infant.

 

So my question stands. How exactly would you like the police to react in these situations, given the information that is provided?

 

You can't expect common people who wear a badge to know every detail of every situation that they drive into. You are expecting these people to make life or death decisions in an instant. Then crucifying them if they do something that you are opposed to. You cannot have it both ways! Shoot to stop the threat, they are murderers! Wait 2 seconds and that gunman gets off a shot, and shoots an innocent, they are inept at their jobs, and should be burned at the stake.

[magley64]

How DO they react when it's an old white man instead of a young black one? They talk to him. http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/watch-what-happens-when-police-confront-white-open-carry-gun-nut

[magley64]

No he did not claim he said drop the weapon. He said hands in the air 3 times.

"Hands in the air" say that three times clearly within 2 seconds so it doesn't sound like jibberish"

[smccrory]

So I'm gonna pose this question.

How would you like the Police to react when they get calls of a person waving a gun at people in a park?

Police now have to be trained for active shooter situations. When they receive the call of a person with a gun, they roll in hot. Expecting there to be an active shooter.

When they roll up on that person with the gun, toy or not (because the caller didn't specify) they identify the threat. Then stop that threat when that person reaches for his weapon.

That is what they have been trained to do. Stop the threat with the information they have been given.

Now lets change the parmeters a bit.

Cops get the call of a gunman in the park. They roll up, shout at the person to place there hands in the air. The officers don't react when a gun is pulled from the waistband (toy or not). That person then proceeds to fire off a few rounds before being stopped by the police. One of those rounds finds it's way to a baby carriage, and kills an infant.

So my question stands. How exactly would you like the police to react in these situations, given the information that is provided?

You can't expect common people who wear a badge to know every detail of every situation that they drive into. You are expecting these people to make life or death decisions in an instant. Then crucifying them if they do something that you are opposed to. You cannot have it both ways! Shoot to stop the threat, they are murderers! Wait 2 seconds and that gunman gets off a shot, and shoots an innocent, they are inept at their jobs, and should be burned at the stake.

+1, This. Magz, would you as a cop like to be known for the rest of your life as the bumbling hesitant who let X innocents die because you were afraid to do what you were supposedly prepared to do - to protect society from imminent harm?

Keep second guessing like you're doing, and we'll all have to get used to the absence of qualified police officers and even more ubiquity of self-defense firearms. Personally, I'm almost there myself this week - I'll actively talk anyone I know out of police work because the personal liabilities are just too great, either from suffering direct physical harm or living like a pariah the rest of your life after an event like this.

[redkow97]

"Hands in the air" say that three times clearly within 2 seconds so it doesn't sound like jibberish"

He can't be yelling that from the car as they pull up? The camera angle is pretty narrow. The officers saw the suspect long before the camera shows them.

Even if it is only 2-3 seconds to say it 3 times, why should it need to be said more than once? It's not an ambiguous instruction.

Now all that said, I am not making any judgment about whether or not the officer acted properly or improperly. I was surprised by how quickly the incident occurred, and 2 frames per second is extremely low resolution to base an opinion on.

I feel for the kid's family, and for the officers. They're stuck hating themselves while they justify their actions.

[zx3vfr]

One Mississippi is 5 syllables

Hands in the air is 4

[Steve Butters]

Fucking people still haven't learned... Don't feed the troll. That asshole hasn't said one intelligent thing ever and you guys still try to argue with him and convince him you're right.

[Bubba]

I see this as a much greater tragedy than the Ferguson incident.  Again, the only info I have is the video, but where I see a procedural failure and in my opinion, the direct cause of the shooting, is the actions of the officer DRIVING the cop car.  He pulled up within feet of the suspect, with the passenger side door in direct line of fire with the gun.  If I was the cop riding shotgun, I'd be freaking out immediately too!!!  It seems to me that if the driver had approached at a head-on angle, where the open door could be used as a shield, or at the very least, stopped the car farther away from the suspect so immediate engagement wouldn't be necessary, the cop/shooter wouldn't have felt he was in imminent danger when he exited the car.  Disclaimer:  I'm not trained in law enforcement, nor have I had active shooter training, so maybe what happened is exactly what cops are trained to do in such a situation, but it doesn't make a lot of sense from my armchair.

 

The reality of a cop's job--where they interact with the lowest common denominator of society (NOT a racial comment, btw) and encounter kids with guns on a daily basis--is that, if they have a desire to survive and to go home to their families at the end of their shift, I can see/understand the the impulse to shoot first before being shot at.  That doesn't make it right, but it sure is a fallible human response, and cops are both fallible and human.  We gotta stop 'creating' tragedies like this if the US is gonna move forward.  Whether it means more guns and cops on the street, better police training, or stricter gun laws, I don't have a clue.  My sympathies are with the cop, the kid, and their respective families.  Shouldn't have to happen this way…

Edited November 28, 2014 by Bubba

[Pokey]

Duane has a skewed way of looking at what seems most anything and everything, he also denies allot of reasons or factors as to why certain things happen and why people are the way they are "or he makes excuses for them". He seems personally responsible enough, but fails to realize that many are not.

[drc32-0]

I agree that it shouldn't have to happen this way.

One thing I'd like to see come from the Ferguson shooting...all officers should have cameras on them.These cameras might defuse some of these incidents.

From the Cleveland incident...this kid was let down by his parents...shit parenting is the underlying factor of a large percent of America's problems.I have no idea how you solve this problem in a country that worships the dollar bill and mocks religion or any absolute right and wrong.

Before all of you "fairy dust" folks start your spiel...you might as well hold your breath...I'm old enough to have witnessed the decline of religion parallel the increase of the lack of morality/civility in American culture.

Until I see your line of thought work to solve the problem,at just appears to be a contributing factor to the problem.