Michael Brown shooting

[cOoTeR]

Now that we've established that, what specific injuries did the coroner cite as cause of death? "Compression of the neck and chest."

How did his neck get compressed? Chokehold featured in the video.

A chokehold that is expressly against regulations.

Never once did the coroner say he was choked. As a matter of fact he avoided saying that by not using the term asphyxiation.

The cop claimed it wasn't a choke it was a takedown not forbidden by the police force. A claim that was determined to be true by the grand jury. You keep denying facts. In order for it to be a choke there would have been compression of the throat or wind pipe. There wasn't any choke. As determined by a thorough investigation and the grand jury using facts that you ignore.

Again can you talk without breathing? Why do you keep ignoring that question? I'm assuming because you know it blows your argument to crap.

[magley64]

Again can you talk without breathing? Why do you keep ignoring that question? I'm assuming because you know it blows your argument to crap.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/09/1350510/-The-Pernicious-Myth-Of-If-You-Can-Speak-You-Can-Breathe

[cOoTeR]

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/09/1350510/-The-Pernicious-Myth-Of-If-You-Can-Speak-You-Can-Breathe

Nice opinion of a blogger. Garner repeatedly stated he couldn't breath Eben after there was no pressure on him. He was talking clearly repeatedly he could breath. Even in those stupid demonstrations listed in the blogger quote you are breathing. Nice try citing a random opinion of an Internet user. The only person his opinion various more weight than is you. Still your trolling is failing.

I'll reiterate this since you keep ignoring a majority of my postings.

Never once did the coroner say he was choked. As a matter of fact he avoided saying that by not using the term asphyxiation.

The cop claimed it wasn't a choke it was a takedown not forbidden by the police force. A claim that was determined to be true by the grand jury. You keep denying facts. In order for it to be a choke there would have been compression of the throat or wind pipe. There wasn't any choke. As determined by a thorough investigation and the grand jury using facts that you ignore.

Edited December 14, 2014 by cOoTeR

[magley64]

If there was no wrongdoing, why was that officer debadged?

[cOoTeR]

What do you mean debadged? Do you mean administrative leave? If so that is common practice while use of force investigations are going on.

Your grasping for things that aren't there. I'm about done feeding your trolling.

[magley64]

What do you mean debadged? Do you mean administrative leave? If so that is common practice while use of force investigations are going on.

Your grasping for things that aren't there. I'm about done feeding your trolling.

Pantaleo was striped of his service gun and badge, and both Pantaleo and damico were placed on desk duty.

[Pokey]

At least no elbows were thrown, that would have been even more brutal and for sure excessive.

[cOoTeR]

Pantaleo was striped of his service gun and badge, and both Pantaleo and damico were placed on desk duty.

That's normal when police are placed under investigation. Doesn't mean anything its not a disciplinary action.

[ohiomike]

My feelings on these issues is that the Martin killing was questionably justified, but based on what 'evidence' we know of, the shooter was exonerated.  In Ferguson, again, based on evidence presented, a group of peers found the shooting was justified.    I'm good with each outcome because when it comes to brass tacks, all we have is evidence to prove justification or condemnation of those police actions, right?  IN a day when the legal system actually seems to favor protecting the guilty, sometimes the guilty really are dealt with according to the situation.  In the Cleveland gunning down of the 12 yo, sounds like some inept Leo's screwed the pooch and killed an innocent kid unnecessarily, again, based on what is known about the happenings.  But the investigations that found the agency to be lacking in so many areas of police conditioning sort of condemns this event into a total screwup by the CPD leading to these officers reacting instead of using some common sense.  But h9w many of us have really ever dealt with a threat like a kid with a gun like that especially the way things are today with so many of our inner city youths and gangs.

 

Gardner's demise came about because of a choke hold seen on video by the nation.  Whether the choke actually killed him or led to his body doing some weird shit later, the choke was still the root of the cause of death imho.  I do not care what kind of training this officer went through defining what an actual choke hold is, when you see his hands locked together under the big guy's chin while pulling back on Gardner, that is a choke hold.  I went through extensive training about that and other 'take down' procedures concerning psychotic and mentally ill veterans while working as a psych nursing assistant at a VA Psychiatric hospital.  If I were on the grand jury I would have voted for the the officer to be dealt with over using an unauthorized manuever to apprehend Gardner.  I also agree with Sharpton (God help me....lol) when he said officers and their actions (like these) should not be investigated by local groups, but rather by peoples who may not be directly associated with those being investigated.  Based on the video and what Gardner was saying like 10 or 11 times (I can't breath) he was choked.  imho, that right there should have been enough to warrant further investigation and a possible trial.

[Josh1234]

If they'd used a taser or a beanbag gun, the guy still could've died.  And those are considered non-lethal.

 

What in the world do you people suggest that the cops do?  Ask nicely for people to lay down on the ground so they can be arrested?  We know how well THAT works.

[magley64]

If they'd used a taser or a beanbag gun, the guy still could've died. And those are considered non-lethal.

Tazers and beanbag guns are sanctioned. Chokeholds are specifically prohibited.

[cOoTeR]

It wasn't a choke hold. The grand jury would have indicted the officer of it actually was. Instead there was evidence and testimony showing it wasn't. #BEATING A DEAD HORSE #HashTaggedandAllCaps

[magley64]

It wasn't a choke hold. The grand jury would have indicted the officer of it actually was. Instead there was evidence and testimony showing it wasn't. #BEATING A DEAD HORSE #HashTaggedandAllCaps

Again it obviously was a choke hold if the autopsy showed compression of the neck as cause of death.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold

Edited December 15, 2014 by magley64

[Josh1234]

Tazers and beanbag guns are sanctioned. Chokeholds are specifically prohibited.

 

Whether they are sanctioned or not, they can still cause death.  And people would still be in an uproar if/when a tazer DID.  What you've chosen to ignore is the fact that ANY use of force can turn out to be deadly even if it's not intended to be.

[Gump]

I didn't need to, in fact, there is video of our interaction that shows you weren't even being violent. I also have strict, specific instructions not to stab people.

Maybe you just prodded me to hard and I had soft skin because tasering me would have seemed obsessive up until the point I resisted arrest.

[cOoTeR]

Again it obviously was a choke hold if the autopsy showed compression of the neck as cause of death.http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold

Re-read my last couple of pages of posts and you will find the definition of a choke is not compression of the neck. A choke is compression of the throat. A headlock involves compression of the neck as stated.

[OsuMj]

I kinda want to laugh, but I feel sad after reading the last few pages of this thread... are you guys really trying to convince magley to change his opinion? 

[magley64]

Re-read my last couple of pages of posts and you will find the definition of a choke is not compression of the neck. A choke is compression of the throat. A headlock involves compression of the neck as stated.

Find me a sourced definition of a choke hold that excludes everything but compression of the windpipe. I'll wait...

In the mean time your claim that talking meant he could breathe just fine is laughable. You lie down on the floor and ill put 500 pounds of weight on your chest. You tell me if you can breathe or not.

[cOoTeR]

Find me a sourced definition of a choke hold that excludes everything but compression of the windpipe. I'll wait...

In the mean time your claim that talking meant he could breathe just fine is laughable. You lie down on the floor and ill put 500 pounds of weight on your chest. You tell me if you can breathe or not.

To your first part I already did that but you decided to ignore the definition of a choke. You can't have a choke hold without choking. I'm not going to waste more of my time on feeding your trolling just so you can ignore the facts.

Your second part are you changing your argument that from he died from being choked to died from being laid on? 500 lbs of body weight is not an issue to breathing of you are in good health. Been there done that, I've taken several classes in self defense that focus on multiple attackers that included drills with dog pile type situations. It's not ideal for breathing freely but breathing is doable without fear of passing out.

Also Garner was alive after they got the cuffs on him and we're no longer trying to restrain him. Had he been choked to death he either would have died while being choked or had damage to his windpipe. Neither of which happened. Your story is just that a story. Just like the Micheal Brown incident has died in this thread so will the Garner incident one the facts and evidence are released.

[magley64]

Just like the Micheal Brown incident has died in this thread so will the Garner incident one the facts and evidence are released.

You're the one ignoring the facts. The autopsy clearly stated compression of the neck and chest were the cause of death. Who compressed his neck? Who compressed his chest? Oh yeah he did that to himself. :eyeroll:

Yes you can speak if you're being suffocated. "I can't breathe" means "pardon me sir, but I don't seem to be respiring at my comfortable life-sustaining level" not necessarily, "there is absolutely no air escaping my lungs"

Also, you can restrict someone's breathing without damaging their windpipe.

The video shows a chokehold according to every dictionary definition I can find on the web.

[cOoTeR]

You're the one ignoring the facts. The autopsy clearly stated compression of the neck and chest were the cause of death. Who compressed his neck? Who compressed his chest? Oh yeah he did that to himself. :eyeroll:

Yes you can speak if you're being suffocated. "I can't breathe" means "pardon me sir, but I don't seem to be respiring at my comfortable life-sustaining level" not necessarily, "there is absolutely no air escaping my lungs"

Also, you can restrict someone's breathing without damaging their windpipe.

The video shows a chokehold according to every dictionary definition I can find on the web.

He wasn't choked to death as your original comment that started this debate said. Note you are citing compression of the chest as what caused his death. Which is it compression of his chest or a choke hold?

Why was his neck (not throat) and chest compressed? Because someone called the cops on him for breaking the law and then he refused lawful orders to comply with being arrested. The cops then had to gain control of a giant of a man. They did that by knocking him off balance and taking him to the ground whet he still refused to comply. Since he still was refusing to be placed in handcuffs the cops had to remain on top of him to get him secured in cuffs. Due to his large size, poor health and the cops that were on top of him he then started having respiratory problems related to his asthma which he died from. He did not die from strangulation which would be the case if he died from a choke hold.

He did not die while the officer had his arms around him. Had that been the case id say yes he was choked to death. Or if damage had been done to his wind pipe from being choked prior then dying from the damage preventing him from breathing. That's why I brought up that there was no damage to the wind pipe or throat.

Had it been a choke hold and not a trained takedown the cop in question would at the very least be on unpaid leave pending a full investigation. But there is enough evidence in the video for the police department to believe it was a trained takedown and not a chokehold. Otherwise they would separate from him as quick as possible to release themselves from as much liability as possible. They would quickly say the officer went beyond what he is authorized to do in the situation on his own accord and is solely responsible for his actions. Instead he is still employed and working pending the full ia investigation. By keeping him employed the police department is opening themselves up to a lot of liability if they don't believe it was an allowable take down.

Also he has been cleared criminally. Had Garner died of a choke hold and not positional asphyxiation attributed to his health it would have gone to trial at least.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Cooter, just stop replying, it is a lost cause arguing with Magz 

[drc32-0]

Cooter, just stop replying, it is a lost cause arguing with Magz

But then mags will win...at least in his mind...as if anyone cares at this point.

[zx3vfr]

Meth. One helluva drug

[Strictly Street]

Without comment......

 

Gunman executes 2 NYPD cops as ‘revenge’ for Garner

http://nypost.com/2014/12/20/2-nypd-cops-shot-execution-style-in-brooklyn/