Michael Brown shooting

[Casper]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/08/14/with-highway-patrol-hugs-and-kisses-replace-tear-gas-in-ferguson/

[redkow97]

Edit:  Judges should be held to a much higher standard.  Military standards are already higher.  I've given up on politicians. 

 

Judges are held to higher standards within the legal community.  The ethics board is no joke, and the rules for Attorneys require avoiding impropriety.  For Judges, that requirement is elevated to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

 

Legal consequences are the same for everyone, which is how it should be, but any attorney can be stripped of his law license (or disbarred for life) without ever breaking the law.  That includes Judges.

[Casper]

Breaking: Police say Brown was a robbery suspect and released officer's name

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[John]

Imo, crimes committed by police officers should be subject to harsher penalties.

Just the way crimes against officers are.

[Tpoppa]

They police wouldn't provide information about the shooting.  Now they are going out of their way to distribute information packets to the press about shoplifting cigars.

 

Does a shoplifting investigation require deadly force?  They said 'moments before.'  I wonder if he had a box of cigars with him when the shooting took place.  There's been no mention of it so far. 

[Tpoppa]

Judges are held to higher standards within the legal community.  The ethics board is no joke, and the rules for Attorneys require avoiding impropriety.  For Judges, that requirement is elevated to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

 

Legal consequences are the same for everyone, which is how it should be, but any attorney can be stripped of his law license (or disbarred for life) without ever breaking the law.  That includes Judges.

They should be held to a higher standards.  And they are.  

[cOoTeR]

I bet there is more to the story than j-walking. But if the cop just rolled up and shot him for j-walking the cop is crazy as shit and a murderer and will face the same punishment as anyone else. But does that justify all the rioting reaction from the community? Do they riot anytime someone is murdered? What if cops acted like that every time a cop gets shot by a thug?

Edited August 15, 2014 by cOoTeR

[Bad324]

Robbery...yup. Not surprised with other pictures I've seen of this upstanding citizen

[madcat6183]

This article can't be serious; http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/living/parenting-black-sons-ferguson-missouri/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

[Scruit]

They police wouldn't provide information about the shooting.  Now they are going out of their way to distribute information packets to the press about shoplifting cigars.

 

Does a shoplifting investigation require deadly force?  They said 'moments before.'  I wonder if he had a box of cigars with him when the shooting took place.  There's been no mention of it so far. 

 

 

The pictures released show a person (that police allege to be Brown) assaulting the store employee.   That would make it felony robbery, not misdemeanor shoplifting. Not jaywalking.

 

Of course shoplifting does not deserve deadly force but you're making the mistake of linking A to C without considering B.  And you don't even know, for sure, what A is.  That's the same mistake people make when they say someone was arrested © for speeding (A) - when in actuality they were arrested for something they did while being investigated for speeding (B), such as refusing to sign the ticket, or trying to drive away from the stop prior to it's actual termination.   So, yes, a shoplifter (A)  CAN be shot ©, yet, if he tries to stab the officer who comes to invesitgate the shoplifting report (B).

 

 

Let's all take a moment to remember that we only have scant details here, so nobody should be using any details to make absolute statements of unerring truth about what actually happened.  Nobody should be judging the behaviour of any involved person at this time, whether supporting or decrying, as the information available to us is in a state of flux.

 

Specifically, this statement:

 

I'm sure if a cop killed your friend or family member over jay walking, your opinion would be different.

 

Implying that the officer had no reason to shoot Brown because he was only "jay walking" is unsound given that it is based upon information that is both incomplete and changing.  The current information is that the officer was investigating Brown as a felony robbery suspect.  Could that have motivated Brown to avoid contact with the officer, or to use force to terminate the contact?  Myabe, maybe not.   Could that version of events change?  Maybe, maybe not.  We don't know.

 

 

Let the investigation run its course before you pick a side.   I have no strong opinion as I have no solid information.  

[magley64]

[Scruit]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/family-ohio-man-fatally-shot-cops-walmart-store-security-video-article-1.1900809

 

Ohio man killed by police at Wal Mart for carrying a BB gun.  Yes, this was a BB gun sold at Wal Mart.  The man was buying it when killed.  Oh, and he was black.

 

Upon what do you base your assertion that he was buying it when killed?   The report stated:

 

A witness who called 911 after the shooting stated that the victim was carrying a rifle and appeared to be loading it when he was shot.

 

The rifle does not look like a BB gun, it looks like a real gun.  Also, that rifle comes in a closed box - why was it out of the box prior to him purchasing it?  What action was he undertaking that the witness interpreted as "loading" it?  What was it about the event that prompted people to call the police?

 

This is not a case of a person who picked up a Daisy BB gun and was shot on sight. Nor is it an active shooter situation.  It's more nuanced than either, and requires more investigation.   

 

I agree that the video should be released, and that all police shootings whoud be investigated by another agency other than the agency involved.  

[ScubaCinci]

Breaking: Police say Brown was a robbery suspect and released officer's name

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

aaaaaand here it comes. As usual, the "he's was a good boy, he was an honor student, he would never do anything bad" portrait gets painted up front and later you find out much differently.

 

 

This article can't be serious; http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/living/parenting-black-sons-ferguson-missouri/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

I believe they probably do teach their kids that stuff and likely with good cause. Face it, when a particular group of people commit a disproportionately large amount of the crime in the country, LEO's are going to scrutinize their behavior more and probably not give them the benefit of the doubt in most circumstances. Right or wrong, it's happening.

[CBBaron]

This article can't be serious; http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/living/parenting-black-sons-ferguson-missouri/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

Unfortunately it is serious and somewhat true.

First many inner city teens feel the world owes them something and/or havn't been taught to show respect to others, especially those in authority. So they need the lesson to diffuse the situation.

Second because so many similar youngsters are rude and difficult many police assume that is the attitude they will get, which just escalates the problem. 

Both sides make the interaction worse than it should be which leads to this.

 

However the fear is over blown. There are very few incidents like this or Martin and nearly all are more complicated than first reports. If atleast one side shows respect during interactions the interaction is usually going to end peacefully.

 

Craig

[magley64]

Face it, when a particular group of people commit a disproportionately large amount of the crime in the country, LEO's are going to scrutinize their behavior more and probably not give them the benefit of the doubt in most circumstances. Right or wrong, it's happening.

Ahhhh hahaha haha

You honestly believe black people break the law more often than white people?

Ha ha OMG that is funny.

Next you're going to tell me that the reason that the population of ivy league schools are primarily white is because white people are smarter.

[madcat6183]

Your guys replies were more along the lines of what I was thinking vs what I felt the article was implying. 

[Casper]

Upon what do you base your assertion that he was buying it when killed?   The report stated:

 

 

 

The rifle does not look like a BB gun, it looks like a real gun.  Also, that rifle comes in a closed box - why was it out of the box prior to him purchasing it?  What action was he undertaking that the witness interpreted as "loading" it?  What was it about the event that prompted people to call the police?

 

This is not a case of a person who picked up a Daisy BB gun and was shot on sight. Nor is it an active shooter situation.  It's more nuanced than either, and requires more investigation.   

 

I agree that the video should be released, and that all police shootings whoud be investigated by another agency other than the agency involved.  

 

It was said he was holding the BB gun in one hand and a cell phone in the other. Apparently that looked to the caller like he was loading it. I can't wait for the videos to be released. That will resolve (hopefully) everything. 

[Tpoppa]

I expect police to go out of their way to draw attention to the cigars and they already are.  I wonder how may other information packets have been prepared and distributed for other robberies or shoplifting investigations.

 

Eye witness accounts all point to a young black male being shot when running away, then being executed when he attempted to surrender.  That is the issue.  Not cigars, not a robbery.  It shouldn't matter if he was a priest, a robber, an honor student, etc.  Police are sworn to protect all citzens, not just the ones they happen feel are savory individuals.   

 

That same police department shooting tear gas at reporters to prevent filming doesn't exactly build their credibility that their actions were justified.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Tpoppa

[Pokey]

Ahhhh hahaha haha

You honestly believe black people break the law more often than white people?

Ha ha OMG that is funny.

Next you're going to tell me that the reason that the population of ivy league schools are primarily white is because white people are smarter.

 

You like stats, do the math. Compare the number of whites in the country compared to blacks, oh but I am sure they are acting out because they are still oppressed and have nowhere near the opportunities as white folks. Wanna compare the number of white gangs compared to black gangs.....go for it. Look into the penal system for hard facts and statistics, go ahead you might become enlightened. Hey lets have a riot because we are pissed off any don't have all the facts.....oh and lets destroy our own community and business's. Brilliant intelligence there, street cred is going out the roof for many right now. Damn those pesky white folks in Chicago, they are just ruining the place with all their violence and murders.

[magley64]

You like stats, do the math. Compare the number of whites in the country compared to blacks, oh but I am sure they are acting out because they are still oppressed and have nowhere near the opportunities as white folks. Wanna compare the number of white gangs compared to black gangs.....go for it. Look into the penal system for hard facts and statistics, go ahead you might become enlightened. Hey lets have a riot because we are pissed off any don't have all the facts.....oh and lets destroy our own community and business's. Brilliant intelligence there, street cred is going out the roof for many right now. Damn those pesky white folks in Chicago, they are just ruining the place with all their violence and murders.

Black people are disproportionately incarcerated, but if you believe for a second it's because they commit more crime, you're pretty gullible.

[Scruit]

I expect police to go out of their way to draw attention to the cigars and they already are.  I wonder how may other information packets have been prepared and distributed for other robberies or shoplifting investigations.

 

Eye witness accounts all point to a young black male being shot when running away, then being executed when he attempted to surrender.  That is the issue.  Not cigars, not a robbery.  It shouldn't matter if he was a priest, a robber, an honor student, etc.  Police are sworn to protect all citzens, not just the ones they happen feel are savory individuals.   

 

That same police department shooting tear gas at reporters to prevent filming doesn't exactly build their credibility that their actions were justified.

 

I certainly would expect the police to explain the nature of their contact with Brown.

 

The eyewitness accounts are compelling and paint a bad picture. 

[ScubaCinci]

Ahhhh hahaha haha

You honestly believe black people break the law more often than white people?

Ha ha OMG that is funny.

Next you're going to tell me that the reason that the population of ivy league schools are primarily white is because white people are smarter.

Maybe you should do some research...

[Tpoppa]

I certainly would expect the police to explain the nature of their contact with Brown.

 

The eyewitness accounts are compelling and paint a bad picture. 

I am expecting the police to produce a weapon.  They'll say he was reaching for it or used it.  And they're the police so it must be true, right?

[Tpoppa]

If you want numbers, there right here:

 

http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/14/ferguson-police-have-a-long-troubling-re

[Scruit]

It was said he was holding the BB gun in one hand and a cell phone in the other. Apparently that looked to the caller like he was loading it. I can't wait for the videos to be released. That will resolve (hopefully) everything. 

 

I don't think the article was clear on exactly what made the caller think he was loading it.   Nor was it clear if/why he had taken the thing out of the box.   Was it somethign innocent like the box was already opened and he was making sure nothing was missing before buying it?  Was he planning to rob the store with it?  Was he taking a selfie?  Was he sending a pic to someone saying; "Is this the one you wanted?"    Too many unanswered questions.