Strictly Street Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/u-s-sells-all-its-gm-shares-taking-10b-loss-1.2457352 U.S. government says 2008 bailout saved one million jobsGM went through bankruptcy protection in 2009 and was cleansed of most of its huge debt, while stockholders lost their investments.It also has invested $8.8 billion in U.S. facilities and has added about 3,000 workers, bringing U.S. employment to 80,000. And this is a win for the US government how? More importantly a win for the US taxpayer, how?How about those shareholders? The pensioners? I'm not a financial genius but this story doesn't seem much like a win for anybody except GM.At your and my expense it would seem. They invested 8.8 billion in facilities? Can I have my money back? Edited December 10, 2013 by Strictly Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I think its obvious that the government has zero clue or desire to run itself like a successful business so there should be surprise I'm a big GM fan but I think they should've let them fail and not done the bail out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/u-s-sells-all-its-gm-shares-taking-10b-loss-1.2457352 And this is a win for the US government how? More importantly a win for the US taxpayer, how?How about those shareholders? The pensioners? I'm not a financial genius but this story doesn't seem much like a win for anybody except GM.At your and my expense it would seem. They invested 8.8 billion in facilities? Can I have my money back? I was massively against the bailouts. Vehemently. I was wrong. Yes if we had let them go bankrupt they would have been bought out and kept alive. But the disruption to the economy at that time while it all got sorted out would have been devastating. And the unemployment, the retirement plans we would have had to pick up federally.....all of that would have cost FAR more than 10 Billion. They did however do two things very wrong. They re-arranged who got paid and who didn't. Secured creditors got nothing and that was very wrong. Also, they let GM spin off all their bad assets into another company, one that the US Government still owns. Such as all the toxic closed plants. That one is going to cost us a crapload of money. However, Obama and pretty much every democrat and liberal lied their asses off the whole time saying it wasn't going to cost us anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I agree with both replies above. I'm a huge GM fan as well.I have no idea of the ins and outs of the bailout, but from some of what I have heard, I'm sure that it could have been handled much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) And the unemployment, the retirement plans we would have had to pick up federally.....all of that would have cost FAR more than 10 Billion. I'm not so sure about that. After all what they did do cost us 10.5 Billion and there are a lot of people they aren't taking into account. A lot of people still lost their jobs. More than a couple of people here on this board lost theirs as the suppliers shut down. We got hit pretty hard as the ripples spread through our local economy. Taxpayers picked up the unemployment benefits for them and others in other States which also got hit. The stock holders got flat out robbed of an undisclosed sum of money. The retired workers lost some of their benefits. Certainly their healthcare is marginalized and will morph into Obamacare or medicare instead of what they were promised. Of course that is the other shoe to drop next year when the Obamacare company mandate is revealed. The majority of the bad debt was, as you point out moved into another company that is still dragging the taxpayers down. But even so, after trying to get past the spin doctors in the article I have to notice that GM added 3,000 jobs and 8.8 billion in facilities for a measly 10.5 Billion taxpayer loss. 1.7 Billion for 3,000 jobs? The now private company gets 8.8 Billion in facilities? Something about the math doesn't sound right here. However, Obama and pretty much every democrat and liberal lied their asses off the whole time saying it wasn't going to cost us anything. Again, I have to ask, can I have my money back? Or at least a couple of free cars? After all, looks like we paid for them and will continue to in the future. Edited December 10, 2013 by Strictly Street 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 And this is why I would never own a GM, ever. Total BS from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The government isn't in place to turn a profit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The government isn't in place to turn a profit... and this in my opinion is why it fails so hard at a lot of financial things. I'm fine with the government not turning a profit but they should be in the place to break even as intended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) I disagree. Business people should stay in business, and stay OUT of government. Government should be in place to protect the people: from foreign governments, from unscrupulous businesses and business practices, from other people, and from power hungry politicians. National debt is not a problem, as the biggest economy in the world, it makes sense that we would have the most national debt... as for china, we may owe them 1 trillion, but they are almost 4 trillion in the hole themselves... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_debt Edited December 10, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 that's good in theory but Government butts their god damn nose into business too much. So long as the Government collects taxes and pays for things, it IS a business whether you like it or agree with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 They absolutely should regulate business, and not every agent who engages in business is themselves a business. I engage in business daily, but I am not myself a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I engage in business daily, but I am not myself a business. because you don't have employees or a payroll. The government does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) because you don't have employees or a payroll. The government does Does that mean the catholic church is a business? The bill and melinda gates foundation is a business? superpacs are businesses? I think not... Their overarching goal has nothing to do with profits (which is the main goal of business)... one has to do with adherents, the next with special causes, and the third with gaining political power... Edited December 10, 2013 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 If you don't think the catholic church is a business then I'm just gonna stop this conversation right here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 If you don't think the catholic church is a business then I'm just gonna stop this conversation right here It's not a business, if it were a business it would be regulated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 The church is regulated. They're tax exempt and must maintain certain regs to remain as such. Like what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 this has little if nothing to do to actually prove the point but i find it interesting cause im bored in the line at subway http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obamacare-regulation-effectively-bars-catholics-owning-health-insurance-companies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReconRat Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Minor detail, but they did fail, sort of.... General Motors Corporation (GMC) disolved in bankruptcy, and was restructured as General Motors Company (GMC). That company name was also owned, and hadn't been used for a long time. It is now the current name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Like what? Obamacare. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAC Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) To the OP, not only are you not going to get your money back, you're gonna keep paying. Why? Well, the government is running a deficit, remember? So, that $10 billion loss (which is really about $17 million when you include the debt service on the $50 billion investment over 5 years) is going to cost you another $400 million per year. Increasing because the interest compounds annually. Forever. Maybe we could at least get a coupon for a Camaro or something. Edited December 10, 2013 by DAC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 To the OP, not only are you not going to get your money back, you're gonna keep paying. Why? Well, the government is running a deficit, remember? So, that $10 billion loss (which is really about $17 million when you include the debt service on the $50 billion investment over 5 years) is going to cost you another $400 million per year. With interest compounded annually. Forever. Maybe we could at least get a coupon for a Camaro or something. I'm bringing this math in when I go to buy a Corvette next year so they cut me a damn deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jporter12 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 So the government is in place to lose money. To waste our money. To use our money with no returns. That doesn't sound very "For the People" to me! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAC Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 So the government is in place to lose money. To waste our money. To use our money with no returns. That doesn't sound very "For the People" to me! For the People? Silly boy. That one was for the Unions! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 So the government is in place to lose money. To waste our money. To use our money with no returns. That doesn't sound very "For the People" to me! We elected them, and keep electing them. We have met the enemy and it is us. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 So the government is in place to lose money. To waste our money. To use our money with no returns. That doesn't sound very "For the People" to me! No returns.... interesting... How many people were bitching when WNF closed during the shutdown?How many people were bitching that national monuments closed?How many people were bitching when white house tours stopped?How many people were bitching when they couldn't get their passport applications processed?How many people were bitching when their TSA lines got longer? The government spends tax money on public resources, things that you and I have equal opportunity to enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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