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Teacher suspended over Pledge of Allegience


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Also it seems somewhat disengenuous to put all of these religions into 1 neat box, and exclude Judaism and Islam...who by rights believe in the same god, just disagree over the nature of jesus' relationship to him.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

Edited by magley64
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Also it seems somewhat disengenuous to put all of these religions into 1 neat box, and exclude Judaism and Islam...who by rights believe in the same god, just disagree over the nature of jesus' relationship to him.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

 

If you say so...........

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If you say so...........

Well, which one of those dozens of christianity is the correct christianity? If we're going by pure numbers of self described adherents catholicism rules...

Which one of those dozens of christianity is the one this country was founded on?

Edited by magley64
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It's funny how double edged the religious sword is.  On one hand you can't force a student who practices Muslim beliefs (just as an example here not picking on a specific cult) to say the word "God" or participate in a country's long standing tradition of fostering patriotism.  But we all must make way for that same little Muslim practitioner to take his/her 5 min. four times a day to roll out their little mat and face the east to say a few Muslim prayers.

 

 

 

Do you not see the difference between allowing someone to engage in the practices of their own religion versus forcing someone to engage in the practices of another religion?

 

Please expand on "we all make way for that same little muslim..."  (Not very sly use of diminutive, BTW)   What does the class have to do?  Sit and wait?  Listen?  Push tables aside?  Chant verses from the koran?

 

The government must allow people the freedom to practice their religion unless is interferes with other people.    Allowing a person to find a quiet place to pray in private is ok.  Allowing them to pray in a classroom is not, regardless of what religion they follow. 

 

When I was growing up the schools I went to made us say grace at lunch (you got after-school detention if a teacher saw your lips not moving) and one school actually walked us all down the the local church for a service each day.  That's what happens when you grow up in a country with an official state-sanctioned religion.  The effect it had was to push me away from religion.

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.....

Im sorry you deleted this, because I completely agree and was ready to cosign.

The more distance I get from school, the Weirder the Pledge seems to me. And I am about as far from the leftist hate-America crowd as you can get.

I just can't picture the Thomas Jeffersons, James Madisons, John Adams, etc getting behind such a pledge. And in light of the carnage caused by unthinking nationalism in the first part of the 20th century, my kids are going to be getting an extra-curricular lesson on any Pledges of Allegiance.

Throw your support behind the ideas and principles, not the bureaucractic and political machine.

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Well, which one of those dozens of christianity is the correct christianity? If we're going by pure numbers of self described adherents catholicism rules...

Which one of those dozens of christianity is the one this country was founded on?

 

There is no "correct" Christian faith, man has taken it too many directions for their own self-righteousness and purpose. Man has taken what the Bible very plainly says and is the word of God, and made it to suit themselves and their selfish needs and wickedness. Of course if you believe in none of this to begin with, it does not really matter. Catholics are the ultimate example "no offense Catholics" but there is no specific reference in the Bible that states that a man or woman must remain celibate in order to serve God. Man cannot do that, and you wonder why Priests are perverted sickos. Purgatory, patron saints, confessional "I pray to God, not through somebody else", the Pope.......whatever. But hey, that is their choice to do as they see fit, does not mean it is right though. The Catholic church is very powerful "always has been", and that in itself scares me personally. I am non-denominational, but what I believe can basically be summed up perfectly in the link below. I am just trying to get through this thing we call life, and it aint easy sometimes. You mentioned "Which one of the dozens of Christianity is the one this country was founded on?" There was no single one, because that just does not exist. When this country was formed it all predates Darwinism  so in theory the founding fathers were creationists and or "deists" like you already mentioned. So.....that is how it all ties into the Constitution, The Bill of rights, and the Declaration of Independence“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness…”  

 

They were some very smart men who created this country "smarter than we are", and they were brilliant in how to this day most everything is still relevant. So you are right in saying that "God" is not mentioned anywhere specifically, but that this country was very much founded on beliefs in general. All of our viewpoints are so interesting to me, it is truly amazing how from one person to the next....we see, understand, comprehend, and believe how we do. I believe that the founding fathers were trying their hardest to find common ground for everyone, and for the most part they did one heck of a job. I am sure you will continue to badger me, but I have said all I am going to say on the matter. Lets agree to disagree on things and call it that.

 

 

http://rockcitychurch.tv/who-we-are/mission-beliefs

Edited by Pokey
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There is no "correct" Christian faith.

At least we can agree on that!

When this country was formed it all predates Darwinism  so in theory the founding fathers were creationists and or "deists" like you already mentioned. So.....that is how it all ties into the Constitution, The Bill of rights, and the Declaration of Independence“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness…”  

 

Spot on, most of these men were deists/unitarians, and only believed in a god/creator because there was no viable alternative at the time.

I fully expect that if these men were alive today they would certainly be at very least agnostics (PAP- Permanent Agnosticism in Principle) or as I am, fully accepting of the fact that there are and never were any gods save for in the imaginations of people.

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Pledging to a flag is retarded socialist activity. A flag is an inanimate object that was changed every few years until about 50 years ago.

Now pledging to the constitution. That would be awesome.

Wow you're a real idiot... pledging to an inanimate object that represents the country is stupid, pledging to an inanimate object that represents the country is awesome...

You realize the constitution has changed since the flag has...

Last flag change was in the 60's, last constitution change was in 1992...

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Wow you're a real idiot... pledging to an inanimate object that represents the country is stupid, pledging to an inanimate object that represents the country is awesome...

You realize the constitution has changed since the flag has...

Last flag change was in the 60's, last constitution change was in 1992...

A constitution is a document which what rules are followed in this country. A flag has no rules or guidelines an inanimate object that offers us nothing but SYMBOLISM.

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No wait, they didn't... They said this country will have NO established religion.
 
http://altreligion.about.com/od/alternativereligionsaz/p/Deism.htm

 

 

At least get the quote correct.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

Congress cannot pass a law to favor one religion over another or to make any religion the "official" religion of the USA. Therefor there is no separation of church and state per se rather an acceptance by the state that in fact there are religions and therefore churches.

 

Seeing as many religions do believe in GOD. It seems that having "In God We Trust" on the money or in the pledge of allegiance does not favor one religion over another.

 

With the interesting concept of the atheist having no religion and demanding that no other belief can be tolerated, doesn't that violate the or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; clause?

 

To say it another way, you can't tell me I have to say it, but you can't tell me I can't say it either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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No wait, they didn't... They said this country will have NO established religion.

 

http://altreligion.about.com/od/alternativereligionsaz/p/Deism.htm

 

 

At least get the quote correct.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

Congress cannot pass a law to favor one religion over another or to make any religion the "official" religion of the USA. Therefor there is no separation of church and state per se rather an acceptance by the state that in fact there are religions and therefore churches.

 

Seeing as many religions do believe in GOD. It seems that having "In God We Trust" on the money or in the pledge of allegiance does not favor one religion over another.

 

With the interesting concept of the atheist having no religion and demanding that no other belief can be tolerated, doesn't that violate the or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; clause?

 

To say it another way, you can't tell me I have to say it, but you can't tell me I can't say it either.

Nobody Is stopping you from saying anything...just stopping this teacher from forcing it on her students.

 

Many religions believe in a god, but not all, some believe in many, some believe in none... so the quote "in god we trust" does favor those religions that have 1 god. Your christians, your jews, your muslims.

 

if you want more insight into the feelings of the founding fathers on the subject of religion in government, article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli signed by president Adams makes it pretty clear...

 

Article_11.gif

 

Jefferson's Bible is another clue regarding his position on the supernatural.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson%27s_Bible

Edited by magley64
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