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Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'


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It all boils down to this for me.........when our end finally comes, we are either right in what we believe or we are wrong.

That's true... but will odin be pleased that you worshipped the false god jesus? How can you expect to enter the sacred halls of Valhalla if you aren't continuously fighting in battles... You don't want to die of old age.

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I'm from a Pentecostal background and I will never deny that Jesus Christ is real.  I have had far too many experiences - good and bad thanks to organized religion - to completely discount the reality

I think it's fine for people to believe what they want. Nobody knows what the fuck is really going on anyway.

but we found his fucking blanket, you assholes

The # 1 guy investigated guy ever, gets a pass as a guy that was invented. Sounds legit to me.

Original topic not #magley64

 

The only "investigation" is written accounts translated half a dozen times after being spoken word of mouth for 3 generations...

There is no real evidence he ever existed...

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The only "investigation" is written accounts translated half a dozen times after being spoken word of mouth for 3 generations...

There is no real evidence he ever existed...

 

No real concrete evidence that he didn't either.

 

But the original topic was one man saying he found evidence from antiquity saying it was all a conspiracy.

 

You clearly believe that one man but I have to wonder if it is true, how come this revelation hasn't been heard before?

 

Think of the number of theories about the Kennedy assassination. Tin foil hats out of the wood work!

 

I don't think people can keep a secret long enough to make this guys claim credible.

 

Somebody would have said something about this long ago and it would have become common knowledge long before this.

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No real concrete evidence that he didn't either.

 

No evidence that there isn't a teapot orbiting saturn, or that there are aren't brand new ipads buried underneath my pool, should one believe everything, no matter how unlikely because it cannot be readily disproven?

 

CONGRATULATIONS:

You've won the zimbabwe lottery, all you have to do to earn your millions is go to your local zimbabwe consulate once a month and give them your pocket money...

at some point in the future, zimbabwe will build you a mansion and buy you a car after filling your bank account with your millions. PBUH

You clearly believe that one man but I have to wonder if it is true, how come this revelation hasn't been heard before?

 

Nope, Didn't even read the whole article. I don't "believe" that one man.

His credibility means nothing at all to me. He's simply reinforced one of many concerns I had with the whole religion.

 

First and foremost is the religions reliance on "magic", god is a magical sky fairy that can do whatever he wants even if it is paradoxical, except when questioned on things that make this world terrible at times, then somehow he loses his powers and it's all the fault of his creations.

Second is the inconsistency of the religious texts (it's been said that the bible is the strongest advocate against christianity if read using critical thinking skills)

Third, and the one this article has some bearing on, is the lack of credibility of bronze age goat herders, and their "priests". Anyone can see that Jesus is a rehash of the story of Horus, they didn't even bother "changing" some of the names: Both raised a man from the dead, Jesus raised "Lazarus" and Horus raised "El-Asarus", both have no records from 12 to 30, both baptized in a river at age 30, by a man who was later beheaded; Jesus to John the baptist, and Horus to anup the baptizer. Jesus was raised by Joseph, Horus was raised by Seph. Jesus was born to a virgin, Mary, Horus was born to a virgin, Meri...

 

There is so much more but I'll hold it there... 

Edited by magley64
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No evidence that there isn't a teapot orbiting saturn, or that there are aren't brand new ipads buried underneath my pool, should one believe everything, no matter how unlikely because it cannot be readily disproven?

 

CONGRATULATIONS:

You've won the zimbabwe lottery, all you have to do to earn your millions is go to your local zimbabwe consulate once a month and give them your pocket money...

at some point in the future, zimbabwe will build you a mansion and buy you a car after filling your bank account with your millions. PBUH

 

Nope, Didn't even read the whole article. I don't "believe" that one man.

His credibility means nothing at all to me. He's simply reinforced one of many concerns I had with the whole religion.

 

First and foremost is the religions reliance on "magic", god is a magical sky fairy that can do whatever he wants even if it is paradoxical, except when questioned on things that make this world terrible at times, then somehow he loses his powers and it's all the fault of his creations.

Second is the inconsistency of the religious texts (it's been said that the bible is the strongest advocate against christianity if read using critical thinking skills)

Third, and the one this article has some bearing on, is the lack of credibility of bronze age goat herders, and their "priests". Anyone can see that Jesus is a rehash of the story of Horus, they didn't even bother "changing" some of the names: Both raised a man from the dead, Jesus raised "Lazarus" and Horus raised "El-Asarus", both have no records from 12 to 30, both baptized in a river at age 30, by a man who was later beheaded; Jesus to John the baptist, and Horus to anup the baptizer. Jesus was raised by Joseph, Horus was raised by Seph. Jesus was born to a virgin, Mary, Horus was born to a virgin, Meri...

 

There is so much more but I'll hold it there... 

 

From the angry atheist pages as a source, sure. Lets try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

 

Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[7][8] or sometimes by a crab, and according to Plutarch's account (see Osiris) used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus[9] to conceive her son (older Egyptian accounts have the penis of Osiris surviving).

Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set who jealously killed Osiris and who she knew would want to kill their son.[10] There Isis bore a divine son, Horus.

 

Not a war Magley just a comment. I can't help but believe at this point you are typing just to hear the sound of the keyboard.

Seriously, making such claims when they can be so easily shot down with Wikipedia of all things?

 

I did like the teapot thing though, nice imagery. :)

Have a good day Sir.

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From the angry atheist pages as a source, sure. Lets try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

 

Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish,[7][8] or sometimes by a crab, and according to Plutarch's account (see Osiris) used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus[9] to conceive her son (older Egyptian accounts have the penis of Osiris surviving).

Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set who jealously killed Osiris and who she knew would want to kill their son.[10] There Isis bore a divine son, Horus.

 

Not a war Magley just a comment. I can't help but believe at this point you are typing just to hear the sound of the keyboard.

Seriously, making such claims when they can be so easily shot down with Wikipedia of all things?

 

I did like the teapot thing though, nice imagery. :)

Have a good day Sir.

 

Isis, is also known as Isis-Mari

http://allthingssekhmet.com/?p=12

 

I understand not wanting to look into it any further...would be a tragedy to study a religion that predates your own and find that much of yours was plagiarized.

Could be enough to cause a "crisis of faith".

Edited by magley64
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I'm full-on atheist and I still don't get the teapot thing... or atheist tattoos, because... what if I am wrong? That's an awkward conversation at the Pearly Gates. :lol:

 

Bertrand Russel

 

In an article titled "Is There a God?" commissioned, but never published, by Illustrated magazine in 1952, Russell wrote:

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.[1]

In 1958, Russell elaborated on the analogy as a reason for his own atheism:

I ought to call myself an agnostic; but, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist. I do not think the existence of the Christian God any more probable than the existence of the Gods of Olympus or Valhalla. To take another illustration: nobody can prove that there is not between the Earth and Mars a china teapot revolving in an elliptical orbit, but nobody thinks this sufficiently likely to be taken into account in practice. I think the Christian God just as unlikely.[2]

 

 

To sum up: If you make a claim that is fantastic, absurd or unbelievable, it's the correct response for me to be skeptical. It's not my job to prove you wrong, it's your job to prove you right.

"a magical sky fairy made everyone and everything, then later impregnated a bronze age goat herder who gives birth to him ala "i'm my own father" then sacrifices himself 30 years later to appease his own pre-birth wrath, and then ressurects himself 3 random days later and floats into the sky like a dirigible" is pretty fantastic, absurd, and unbelievable...

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Bertrand Russel

 

 

To sum up: If you make a claim that is fantastic, absurd or unbelievable, it's the correct response for me to be skeptical. It's not my job to prove you wrong, it's your job to prove you right.

"a magical sky fairy made everyone and everything, then later impregnated a bronze age goat herder who gives birth to him ala "i'm my own father" then sacrifices himself 30 years later to appease his own pre-birth wrath, and then ressurects himself 3 random days later and floats into the sky like a dirigible" is pretty fantastic, absurd, and unbelievable...

 

And the exact same can be said for what you believe as well.....basically that we "and everything that exists everywhere" all just evolved, developed and came to be from a big bang over billions of years. Not everything can be explained by logic and proved with science, man is not all knowing for a reason. Extremely gifted,intelligent, wise, brilliant and open minded people believe both ways, yet many will be wrong nonetheless. 

Edited by Pokey
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And the exact same can be said for what you believe as well.....basically that we "and everything that exists everywhere" all just evolved, developed and came to be from a big bang over billions of years. Not everything can be explained by logic and proved with science

Again, you're making the classic blunder of conflating evolution, abiogenesis, and the big bang theory.

You want proof of evolution? Feel free to visit any natural history museum in the country, they can show you thousands of fossils.

3 separate answers for 3 separate questions.

And none of those theories require "belief". I support them, based on my understanding, until a better solution comes along... but "magical sky fairy" isn't the answer.

Not everything can be explained with logic and proven by science YET... key word, YET.

But thanks to science, we understand way more every single day...

Remember when religion ruled the world? Those were called the dark ages..

Edited by magley64
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Personally, I don't label myself as anything other than a good human being. I'm not a christian or an atheist.

 

I believe in right over wrong and treating others the way I want to be treated, and if that's not good enough, for whatever is waiting for me, if anything, after I die, then I'm okay with that. I will die knowing that I did the best that my gut instinct told me to do.

 

I do believe we belong to something much larger than our universe, and the closest example I can use to explain it, would be the ending to the original Men in Black movie.

 

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Again, you're making the classic blunder of conflating evolution, abiogenesis, and the big bang theory.

You want proof of evolution? Feel free to visit any natural history museum in the country, they can show you thousands of fossils.

3 separate answers for 3 separate questions.

And none of those theories require "belief". I support them, based on my understanding, until a better solution comes along... but "magical sky fairy" isn't the answer.

Not everything can be explained with logic and proven by science YET... key word, YET.

But thanks to science, we understand way more every single day...

Remember when religion ruled the world? Those were called the dark ages..

 

Well of course evolution exists, I never said it did not. Everything has evolved/evolves/adapts in some form, but not to the extremes and understandings that man would like to so prove and believe. But it cannot in my mind in any way be the begin all and end all of us and everything else "things are just too perfect" contrary to what you believe. Religion has never "ruled the world" yes the Native Americans and countless other civilizations throughout history have had belief systems and worshiped something or some entity, but the qwest for knowledge of science and technology has also been there, but man will "NEVER" have many of the answers they so desperately seek. I love Science and history and "knowledge" we are nothing without any of it, but man has limits. I do not put my faith and trust in man, because man has proven to fail time and time again. God or the great sky fairy has not failed man, but having a choice is quite the burden to bear. It is in our nature to destroy ourselves, this planet and everything on it was a gift that we have squandered. The Bible and the Christian Faith is just not as cut and dry to me as it is to others, no doubt that many are very wrong with and in how they interpret the Bible or attempt to understand God. Once again that is the way of man, to make and change things as they see fit for them to try and make sense of things, and to help them live with themselves for the choices they make or don't make. There is no correct mold for a Christian, there are just too many layers. God and his ways are so complex that we cannot possibly comprehend "go ahead and laugh" and the unexplained cannot be explained to us "yet". ;) I have no worries, I figure I am covered either way when my time here is done. I was born a sinner and I will die a sinner.

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Well of course evolution exists, I never said it did not. Everything has evolved/evolves/adapts in some form, but not to the extremes and understandings that man would like to so prove and believe. But it cannot in my mind in any way be the begin all and end all of us and everything else "things are just too perfect" contrary to what you believe. Religion has never "ruled the world" yes the Native Americans and countless other civilizations throughout history have had belief systems and worshiped something or some entity, but the qwest for knowledge of science and technology has also been there, but man will "NEVER" have many of the answers they so desperately seek. I love Science and history and "knowledge" we are nothing without any of it, but man has limits. I do not put my faith and trust in man, because man has proven to fail time and time again. God or the great sky fairy has not failed man, but having a choice is quite the burden to bear. It is in our nature to destroy ourselves, this planet and everything on it was a gift that we have squandered. The Bible and the Christian Faith is just not as cut and dry to me as it is to others, no doubt that many are very wrong with and in how they interpret the Bible or attempt to understand God. Once again that is the way of man, to make and change things as they see fit for them to try and make sense of things, and to help them live with themselves for the choices they make or don't make. There is no correct mold for a Christian, there are just too many layers. God and his ways are so complex that we cannot possibly comprehend "go ahead and laugh" and the unexplained cannot be explained to us "yet". ;) I have no worries, I figure I am covered either way when my time here is done. I was born a sinner and I will die a sinner.

was Adam a homo erectus? Explain how 1.8 million year old skulls are found throughout the world, not just in present day Iran. How could the population possibly spread that fast. Yet the bible claims the earth is only like 6,600 years old. Not to mention Noah was 600 years old. Really bro, I understand that you have to have blind faith to enter heaven, but... At some point you have to think for yourself and not just what the bible preaches, the bible was written by men, God intentionally made man flawed, correct? So therefore the bible is flawed
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Well of course evolution exists, I never said it did not. Everything has evolved/evolves/adapts in some form, but not to the extremes and understandings that man would like to so prove and believe.

So where do you tell evolution to stop? "okay evolution, you can change 4000 genes, but after that you have to defer to God, and under no circumstances can you change any genes that would require we re-classify an organism into a new species"

Evolution is the one elegant explanation for the diversity and complexity of life on this planet. And there is lots of evidence of it if you look.

 

But it cannot in my mind in any way be the begin all and end all of us and everything else "things are just too perfect" contrary to what you believe.

Nothing's perfect, just well adapted to it's environment.

 

Religion has never "ruled the world" yes the Native Americans and countless other civilizations throughout history have had belief systems and worshiped something or some entity, but the qwest for knowledge of science and technology has also been there, but man will "NEVER" have many of the answers they so desperately seek.

No, during the dark ages, the church took over. squashed art and culture that they felt didn't align with their "christian" faith.

What questions will "man" never answer? we've gotten pretty far so far, what question do you have that your religion sufficiently answers that science cannot?

During the 17th and 18th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment, many critical thinkers saw religion as antithetical to reason. For them the Middle Ages, or "Age of Faith", was therefore the polar opposite of the Age of Reason.[27] Kant and Voltaire, among others, were vocal in attacking the religiously dominated Middle Ages as a period of social regress, while Gibbon in The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire expressed contempt for the "rubbish of the Dark Ages".[28] Yet just as Petrarch, seeing himself on the threshold of a "new age", was criticizing the centuries until his own time, so too were the Enlightenment writers criticizing the centuries until their own. These extended well after Petrarch's time, since religious domination and conflict were still common into the 17th century and beyond, albeit diminished in scope.

I love Science and history and "knowledge" we are nothing without any of it, but man has limits. I do not put my faith and trust in man, because man has proven to fail time and time again. God or the great sky fairy has not failed man, but having a choice is quite the burden to bear.

Of course he hasn't, he doesn't exist. He's a character in an old book, plagiarized from other old books. The cat in the hat has not failed man either.

 

It is in our nature to destroy ourselves, this planet and everything on it was a gift that we have squandered.

If you believe that, who created us with that "nature"? Why didn't he create us better? Why not make us so that we were grateful, and peaceful? If your claim is that he created everyone and everything, then the buck stops there. it's his fault, he's the omniscient, omnipotent one. He knew exactly what he was doing and set you up to fail.

 

The Bible and the Christian Faith is just not as cut and dry to me as it is to others, no doubt that many are very wrong with and in how they interpret the Bible or attempt to understand God. Once again that is the way of man, to make and change things as they see fit for them to try and make sense of things, and to help them live with themselves for the choices they make or don't make. There is no correct mold for a Christian, there are just too many layers. God and his ways are so complex that we cannot possibly comprehend "go ahead and laugh" and the unexplained cannot be explained to us "yet". ;) I have no worries, I figure I am covered either way when my time here is done. I was born a sinner and I will die a sinner.

You have an awfully negative view of yourself. Perhaps some therapy, or positivity training would help you.

My view of myself is much more optomistic. I was born to 2 loving parents who did the best they could. I've grown up to be a pretty good person. I take care of those that I love. I help those around me that are in need of help. I do my best to improve the lives of people I meet, and learn what i can along the way. I'm pretty happy with the person I am now.

I simply refuse to accept your assertion, and the assertions of many of your religion's priests that I am somehow fatally flawed from birth. My attitude is: If I'm not "good" enough for you, what makes you think I want to join your little club? Heaven/Hell? Imaginary, post mortem stick and carrot...

 

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I am happy happy happy with myself and my life, I am not miserable and fighting personal demons like you seem to assume. Man is gonna have an answer for everything, and I am just not buying into allot of it, just like you don't buy into the Bible and the sky fairy. The Bible to me is not a book of lies and deceit of man, to me it is just the total opposite. Believe as you may and live as you wish, but how I live my life and choose to believe in my existence is not hurting a single person either. Plenty of bad people have existed and done horrible things without being tied to any religious belief, so all things bad cannot be tied to religions. I have no inner struggles, and I have sadness for those that do. Yeah I think this country is going to hell in a handbasket, but that is the only gloom and doom that I fear. I believe there are unsolvable mysteries given to us for a reason, and it drives man crazy trying to figure it out. I am far from a robot or a sheep, and I have no fear of what will happen to me once I die. Such a morbid thought to believe we are born only to die and that is THE END, I refuse to believe it is over once we die. Man is not as smart as he thinks he is.

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I am happy happy happy with myself and my life, I am not miserable and fighting personal demons like you seem to assume. Man is gonna have an answer for everything, and I am just not buying into allot of it, just like you don't buy into the Bible and the sky fairy. The Bible to me is not a book of lies and deceit of man, to me it is just the total opposite. Believe as you may and live as you wish, but how I live my life and choose to believe in my existence is not hurting a single person either. Plenty of bad people have existed and done horrible things without being tied to any religious belief, so all things bad cannot be tied to religions. I have no inner struggles, and I have sadness for those that do. Yeah I think this country is going to hell in a handbasket, but that is the only gloom and doom that I fear. I believe there are unsolvable mysteries given to us for a reason, and it drives man crazy trying to figure it out. I am far from a robot or a sheep, and I have no fear of what will happen to me once I die. Such a morbid thought to believe we are born only to die and that is THE END, I refuse to believe it is over once we die. Man is not as smart as he thinks he is.

Then why do you keep calling yourself a sinner?

Death doesn't make life any less spectacular. If it makes you feel better to believe that all of your loved ones that have passed are waiting for you on the other side of a celestial wall, that's fine. I just try to look at things more realistically.

My best friend from college died last week. It sucks, and I'll miss him, but my missing him doesn't change the fact that he's dead, and all the things that made him who he was are now no longer alive. His genes live on in his daughters, and his memory lives in those (like myself) that he had an effect on. That's enough for me. I won't ever forget him, so I don't need a ghost version of him floating in the clouds somewhere.

Edited by magley64
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Isis, is also known as Isis-Mari

http://allthingssekhmet.com/?p=12

 

I understand not wanting to look into it any further...would be a tragedy to study a religion that predates your own and find that much of yours was plagiarized.

Could be enough to cause a "crisis of faith".

 

 

Your assertion that "I understand not wanting to look into it any further" is clearly wrong as I have done so for the past comment as well as this one.

 

For example the "Virgin Birth" that you cite as proof that the one story was copied from the other doesn't really fit. You can draw parallels but that's about it. Isis sewed together the pieces parts of Osiris which his brother Seth had chopped up and nailed into a coffin. Not crucified, chopped up and nailed into a coffin. Then she had sex with him to conceive Horus. Opps! Almost forgot the part about her turning into a bird and fanning life back into the Frankenstein like corpse. Whom she then had sex with and then he/it promptly died.

 

So you do have a kind of resurrection there, but about that virgin birth part. She had sex with him. Having sex = not a virgin. So it’s sex with a coma patient or necrophilia — not your classic virgin-birth story either way.

 

It seems that you are getting most of this from Gerald Massey, who wrote "Ancient Egypt, The Light of the World" in 1907. Which got about as much credibility from scholars then and now as Dan Brown does with "The Da Vinci Code".

 

Interesting, even captivating in it's intricacy but missing a quite few key points. Of course you might say that the story was changed to fool the stupid bronze age goat herders into believing in the "magical sky fairy".  But why? They were Jews who already believed in God. That the Roman Emperor Constantine needed a way control the masses beyond the army that he had. Again why? Either way it starts to be a stretch.

 

In any case I am not having a "crisis of faith" over your comments. I'm more puzzled over why you are so  angry about this topic? Why you have to refute every comment made that doesn't agree with yours? Even more importantly, why do you even care?

 

 You do say you don't believe in God which is a belief that stands on it's own. This makes your comments seem all the more curious. If you don't believe in God what do you care what anybody else believes? Unless of course you just love to argue. Which might be a possible answer to the question of "Why do you even  care"? Perhaps you don't. If so, why are we talking about it?

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I don't believe he's angry about it, Street. I think counter-points are pretty common in the debate process. If he were hurling insults, then that would be different. Arguing against your position is kind of important in this type of setting, isn't it? I mean, if we all just took the word of the accepted Christian authority, and didn't question his assertions, it'd pretty much be just like sitting in church.

 

Amirite, or amirite? ;)

 

Good point I stand corrected.

 

Of course then we would have to agree on who that "accepted Christian authority" is. Which I don't think is going to happen.

Edited by Strictly Street
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Of course then we would have to agree on who that "accepted Christian authority" is. Which I don't think is going to happen.

 

So, you admit you're not an authority and everything you say is nonsense? :p

 

<Chuckle> - Didn't say that. I said I don't think we will all agree. Didn't claim to know the mind of God either or for that matter to have authority over anything.

Some people know more about scripture than I do, some less. By no means am I a theologian or scholar of antiquities such as Egyptology.

 

It all started when I picked up this book and started to read it...

Edited by Strictly Street
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