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Lawsuit Calls For Columbus To Do Away With Red-light Cameras


Casper
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They've been deemed unconstitutional for years. They just installed a ton of them in Kent and Ravenna over the last couple months. Giant waste of money and resources, but what else is new...

this is exactly the problem, they costs way more than they bring in.  Especially because if you take the ticket to court its pretty much guranteed to be tossed because they cannot prove you were driving.  I forget where I read about it but some city had them, someone filed a class action lawsuit and eventually the judge ruled that the police department had to pay back every ticket they wrote for them, like regardless how someone pleaded etc.  The police department contacted the company who made the cameras and basically the company told the police to F off and they wouldn't help pay anything back.

 

In the end they removed the camera's and I believe the police department lost sevearl million dollars because of all of it. 

 

I got one in Chilicothe back in the day, just paid it and moved on.  Found out later that they were ruled to not be accurate and my 2 points were removed from my license.  I didn't do anything to get them off, just went away.  The camera's there have been removed too.

 

Personally I think they are total BS and entrapment, and would definitely fight one if I got another.

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Personally I think they are total BS and entrapment, and would definitely fight one if I got another.

 

It's not entrapment... they aren't encouraging you to speed or blow red lights..

 

They ARE bullshit, and for most towns/cities/etc they are very lucrative.

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I don't mind the concept, but the ticket generated must be subject to the same due process as a ticket handed to you by a cop.   The idea that the city is "settling" a "lawsuit" with you for "allowing your car to be driven through a red light" is bravo sierra.

 

Also, the camera purchase and maintenance fees must be paid at a flat rate - not per-ticket rate.  No more private companies profiting from each ticket.

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Personally I think they are total BS and entrapment, and would definitely fight one if I got another.

 

Entrapment means the government talked you into committing the crime.   Red light cameras a no more "entrapment" the the security cameras at a bank.

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They've been deemed unconstitutional for years. They just installed a ton of them in Kent and Ravenna over the last couple months. Giant waste of money and resources, but what else is new...

 

The concept is not unconstitutional - just the "private" and "civil" execution that companies and cities have adopted.  If the alleged violation videos were reviewed by a sworn officer who then wrote a ticket based upon that, and the ticket goes through the normal court system with due process just like a ticket handed to you by a cop in person.... the constitutional concerns of due process, right to face accuser etc are addressed.  

 

If done correctly...

 

- The due process is the same as an actual ticket - because it would be an actual traffic ticket.

- The accuser is the cop who reviewed the violation.  Just like a burglary of a business closed for the night - the cop would view the video and the charges flow from there.

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Easiest way to get rid of them is for EVERYONE to stop running red lights.  The system would generate no revenue and the city would dismantle the program to avoid the maintenance costs.

 

Notice that's slightly different then just saying; "Don't run red lights then".  If you want to run a red then that's on you - I'm just speaking about the reality of what would happen if the system quit being profitable.

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I don't mind the concept, but the ticket generated must be subject to the same due process as a ticket handed to you by a cop.   The idea that the city is "settling" a "lawsuit" with you for "allowing your car to be driven through a red light" is bravo sierra.

 

Also, the camera purchase and maintenance fees must be paid at a flat rate - not per-ticket rate.  No more private companies profiting from each ticket.

 

I think the details of the lawsuit were a bit more complicated... in that if you were past a particular line, but stopped for the light, it still flashed you.... I vaguely remember something along these lines.

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In the UK the tickets are real, not civil penalties.  Due process is afforded etc.

 

People still object though.  Why?

 

It doesn't matter if it's a cop or a camera.  Nobody likes getting caught.  They just dislike cameras because they are extremely effective.

 

 

Now, in the US the private/civil implementation creates it's own problems that must be addressed.  Not arguing that the UK is utopia of happy slow drivers...   I'm just conceding that even a constitutionally approved implementation will not make people happy.  The bad implementation just gives them an outlet for their anger - so they don't have to be angry at themselves for running the red light.

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I think the details of the lawsuit were a bit more complicated... in that if you were past a particular line, but stopped for the light, it still flashed you.... I vaguely remember something along these lines.

 

I'll have to look closer.  The link doesn't work for me so I'll google it separately. 

 

The rules for red light / stop sign stops are clear.   You stop before any part of your vehicle crosses the leading edge of the stop bar (if there is one).  If no stop bar then you stop before any part of your vehicle crosses the leading edge of the first crosswalk line (if there is one).  If no stop bar or crosswalk, then you stop before you enter the intersection. 

 

I also remember some complaints where vehicles were misidentified due to poor image quality of the license plate (even to the point where a white pickup truck was fined for the actions of a red sedan).   There were issues with vehicles being fined for speeding when it's clear from the pictures/video that a vehicle in an adjacent lane was the one that was speeding.   Finally, the kangaroo courts they have set up are staffed by people on the payroll of the camera companies, and they are therefore not highly motivated to be impartial.

 

All of those reasons are why I say these systems should be run by the police and every violation reviewed and validated by a sworn LEO.  Dispute handled just like any other ticket, so you get your day on court. 

 

Of course this means you are STILL pleading your case to a man/woman who is paid by the entity that will profit from you being found guilty...   Can't win, huh?

Edited by Scruit
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nope, we had to revolt against that shit :)

 

 

YOU didn't revolt against shit... Some of OUR ancestors revolted against SOME of their ancestors...

 

Which has nothing at all to do with the UK of today.

Edited by magley64
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