Don't Use Rick Roush Motorsports For Service...

[hotleadsingerguy]

I've bought a few bikes from Rick Roush Motorsports in Medina before, but this was the last one...and I own't be going there for service in the future.

 

I bought a 2013 ZX6R about a month ago from Rick Roush. The sale went easily (although the salesman seemed like a douche), and I love the bike itself. Now the problems.

 

About 2 days after buying the bike, it was into the reserve. Apparently they only put 1.5Gallons into the bike during the prep. Wonderful. I then realized they pumped the tires through the roof (the front was 40 and the rear was 43). Then the oil light came on today at 800 miles. Monday morning I'll be calling Rick Roush and demanding an oil change, because if they did one at all they obviously did it wrong the first time.

 

 

 

Oh, and a 2-year old R6 I bought from Rick Roush a few years ago had a completely-worn clutch when I bought it. They replaced it for $100 (they basically gave the parts free but charged me for labor), but I should have learned my lesson that day.

 

 

Anyone else have issues with RR?

[zx3vfr]

Ive had serious Issues with them.

Call and ask for ricks voicemail and he will call you back and make things right

[hotleadsingerguy]

Ive had serious Issues with them.

Call and ask for ricks voicemail and he will call you back and make things right

 

I think I'll do that. I'll call Monday morning and see what they say. This is purely ridiculous for a $13k purchase.

[hotleadsingerguy]

So today I changed the oil anyway. I didn't want them doing it...instead I was just going to call Rick and tell him his service department sucks. Before I did, however, the check engine light came on. The bike runs wonderfully, but the light comes on every time I start the bike and stays on until I shut it off. I'm going to talk to them about that one tomorrow too. I've seen a few posts on forums saying that the butterfly servo on the exhaust can have a faulty sensor, which in turn causes a check engine light...but I'll have to see what the service department says. I'd like them to replace the ECU anyway, since 90% of the time I have to start the bike 2-3 times before it keeps running after it's been cold. Apparently it's an interconnected issue...the butterfly valve stays closed and the backpressure causes the bike to stall out because the ECU takes too long to manage the choke settings.

 

 

 

Either way, I did the oil change and guess what? Not too little oil. *Way* too much. I took out just a hair short of 4Qt of oil...while the bike requires 3.1Qt when replacing the filter. I thought I couldn't see any oil in the window, but in actuality I couldn't see any air! It didn't look black in the window, so it just looked like it was a coating of oil on the window. Anyway, did the oil change and all looks well...but the engine light is still on.

 

 

I think I'm going to call Rick and complain, then take the bike down the street to the new location of State 8. I've bought a few bikes there too (at their cuyahoga falls location) and their service department has always been *awesome*. They gave me an employee discount on a rear tire once because I was a veteran and they said they liked me. $120 for a brand new Q2

[Moto-Brian]

The capacity is 3.3US QT...  Not 3.1...  And, if you took just shy of 4 QTs, how did you measure that?  Just curious because I think you ought to educate yourself before you go in with guns blazing.  

 

The sensor being bad on the servos or most likely it being a STVA and has NOTHING to do with the ECU.  You're not going to get an ECU, man.  And, you really shouldn't ask for one.  It doesn't warrant getting one.

 

If it is a 2013, the warranty will cover the STVA.  However, I would be interested in how you start the bike.  I am wondering if you are touching the throttle.  Most guys that have trouble starting them are touching the throttle and you'll have a similar issue.  Again, not an ECU issue...

 

Finally, the dealership doesn't have to top off the tank.  Most places are not doing that anymore.  You have a gas warning light for a reason and if it comes on, you need refueling...  Pretty simple concept.  

 

Again, if buying used, things like a clutch can easily be worn as a lot of guys slip the shit out of them or are abusing them.  I can attest to clutches being worn with only a year's worth of riding because the guy abused the bike.  Also, clutches can come across as fine when trading in and if you ride it a while later, it can go out.  Or maybe the second owner isn't too easy on the clutch either and puts it into the dead zone.

 

I'd just be really careful what you "demand" as you can easily come across as a dick and they can easily put up a wall and not be very kind.  Now, it COULD be an ECU issue, but I highly doubt it.  So, be careful and be polite and ask calm and educated questions and I bet you get further than if you walk in with demands and a tone...

[Gixxus Christ!]

I'd be irate about the oil, that can cause a serious issue when it slops up around the crank and gets compressed between it and the case, not only does it rob power, it creates an incredible amount of heat.considering there's between a pint and a quart left in the filter, they way over filled it. Also no excuse for a check engine light on that new of A bike.

That being said, dont be a dick. It doesn't hurt you any to use your manners when dealing with customer service and it doesnt do anyone any good to make these people's day at work any shittier, you wouldnt want someone to come throw rocks at you while you're on the job. Pretty likely the person you speak with isn't even the one who fucked up.

[hotleadsingerguy]

The capacity is 3.3US QT...  Not 3.1...  And, if you took just shy of 4 QTs, how did you measure that?  Just curious because I think you ought to educate yourself before you go in with guns blazing.  

Well considering the manual says to fill with 3.1Qt, US, when replacing the filter, you'd think that 3.1Qt would come out. While it's not exact, I measured it using the 1Qt jugs of oil you get from the store. It's not exact, but I'm fairly certain if I fill 4 of them up to the 1Qt line that's more than 3.1Qt (or even 3.3Qt). The total capacity of the oil system is kind of irrelevant...it's only about how much should be drained and filled that I'm going by here.

 

The sensor being bad on the servos or most likely it being a STVA and has NOTHING to do with the ECU.  You're not going to get an ECU, man.  And, you really shouldn't ask for one.  It doesn't warrant getting one.

I'm definitely not going to go in demanding an ECU...I'm going to tell them what's happening with it and let them come to their own conclusion. That being said, every issue that I've read online with problems on a cold-start and problems with the Check Engine Light coming on already have been resolved by a mix of replacing the ECU and replacing the servo. The issue with the servo isn't relevant to the replacement of the ECU...I mentioned it together but they're two different issues. I'm fairly certain the ECU needs replacing because on a cold-start it takes 2-3 tries to get the engine to continue running.

 

If it is a 2013, the warranty will cover the STVA.  However, I would be interested in how you start the bike.  I am wondering if you are touching the throttle.  Most guys that have trouble starting them are touching the throttle and you'll have a similar issue.  Again, not an ECU issue...

I start the bike like I've started every other bike I've owned in history (around 9 of them now): I turn the key to On, I wait until the fuel pump stops, then I press the Start Engine button until it's running. At that point I let off the button. At no point in the process do I touch the throttle sleeve or handle at all, besides pressing the button. I've ridden for around 13 years and have ridden probably upwards of 30 bikes. I know how to start one (at least 20 of them have been supersport/superbikes).

 

Finally, the dealership doesn't have to top off the tank.  Most places are not doing that anymore.  You have a gas warning light for a reason and if it comes on, you need refueling...  Pretty simple concept.  

I realize that. It's not as if I ran out of fuel. I'm not a blithering idiot. While a dealership doesn't have a requirement to fill the tank, it's still far more than just common courtesy. I'm spending $12k on a brand new bike, it's more than customary for them to spend the $15 it takes to fill it.

 

Again, if buying used, things like a clutch can easily be worn as a lot of guys slip the shit out of them or are abusing them.  I can attest to clutches being worn with only a year's worth of riding because the guy abused the bike.  Also, clutches can come across as fine when trading in and if you ride it a while later, it can go out.  Or maybe the second owner isn't too easy on the clutch either and puts it into the dead zone.

I know that. It rode fine on the way home and didn't present itself until the next day...but if they test-rode it when it came in they would have realized it immediately. The only reason it didn't present itself to me on the ride home is because it had been sitting in the showroom for over a year.

 

I'd just be really careful what you "demand" as you can easily come across as a dick and they can easily put up a wall and not be very kind.  Now, it COULD be an ECU issue, but I highly doubt it.  So, be careful and be polite and ask calm and educated questions and I bet you get further than if you walk in with demands and a tone...

 

I should have used different words in my post, but your post comes across as fairly offensive. You don't know my pedigree, but because of that I'd say you should be a bit more polite in your answers.

 

Either way, the oil light and check engine light shouldn't be coming on with less than 800 miles on the bike (and riding it in the break-in period...so definitely not hard miles). They overpumped the tires, they put in too much oil, and they put in about enough fuel to get home and then to work. I'm not going in yelling at them, but I definitely want them to do a check again. If they've skimped or missed on these very basic things, who knows what they did with the rest. I checked the clutch and throttle systems and made sure the chain and such are in good working order, but I shouldn't have to spend $12k to come home and spend 4 hours making sure everything is working correctly.

 

This is basic maintenance that the dealership should have done correctly and obviously did not. Regardless of the fact that they were "close" in most regards, it's still shady maintenance. Riding on sport tires that are 3+lbs over the listed ratings is dangerous...taking a hard corner already puts stress on the edges of the grip patch -- doing so in over-inflated tires could = wreck.

[hotleadsingerguy]

I'd be irate about the oil, that can cause a serious issue when it slops up around the crank and gets compressed between it and the case, not only does it rob power, it creates an incredible amount of heat.considering there's between a pint and a quart left in the filter, they way over filled it. Also no excuse for a check engine light on that new of A bike.

That being said, dont be a dick. It doesn't hurt you any to use your manners when dealing with customer service and it doesnt do anyone any good to make these people's day at work any shittier, you wouldnt want someone to come throw rocks at you while you're on the job. Pretty likely the person you speak with isn't even the one who fucked up.

 

Well no, that ~4Qt includes what was removed from the filter. I emptied the oil and changed the filter, then measured when I was done with everything. Still, it should be around 3.1Qt including the filter, according to the manual.

[hotleadsingerguy]

Anyway, I didn't say I was going to demand anything. I said I wanted to see what they say, but I was going to want the ECU replaced. Pressuring them when they're not 100% is different from demanding =)

 

And I also said I'm probably going to go to State 8 anyway, since at this point I don't really trust Roush. All of the servicing was done with the service manager present (I think his name was Eric? I don't remember), so I'd say it pretty much comes down to him. That's one of the responsibilities of his job.

[Gixxus Christ!]

Ok. Lemme give you some new guy advice before you leave in a huff. You're new. You post a thread bitching about service somewhere. Youre going to get responses, and you're not going to like all of them. So far you got one from a guy who works at a dealer, one from a guy who owns his own shop and one from a professional mechanic. Telling people their posts are offensive, touting your 'pedigree'...doesn't bode well. I'm telling you this because I've seen a lot of guys come here with a certain attitude and leave within a week or two with a very sore ass. You're new. Thank people for their advice. Be gracious. It will go a long way for you. Also, prepare your tender balls for some serious busting over your screen name, its gonna happen.

[BDBGoalie]

I don't get where you think buying a used bike from a dealership makes it not a used bike. All the dealership is going to do is clean it up and put it on the floor. It is not worth the time and money involved to fully service it because it is not selling for more because they did.

 

Who knows if they even changed the oil or filled the tires? Its a used bike. And you should be checking that shit before you buy something anyways.

 

 

Why is it that we're seeing more people whining recently because they got the idea that the seller is going to spoon-feed them, do everything for them, and hold their hand through the process just because they are buying something?

[hotleadsingerguy]

Crazy, I realize it was advice, but it was also out of context and he responded to a few things that I didn't even say. Saying I should "educate myself" assumes that I'm uneducated in the matter.

 

 

As for expecting a certain level of quality, unless something has changed in the near past...it is, of course, a common belief that a dealership at least tests something before they sell it if they've purchased it used from someone. Why? Because if they never tested it they wouldn't even know how it performed. If they didn't know how it performed, they wouldn't buy it.

 

 

I'm not saying they went through a few days of testing on the bike...just that when the guy traded it in they would have *had* to at least run it through a few tests if they were, in the least, competent. If you've ever seen a dealership that buys things without testing them, I'd like to know where it is so I can trade in 10 junkyard bikes.

[Gixxus Christ!]

If it starts, runs, rides and looks decent the bike has passed all tests. Caveat emptor.

[Moto-Brian]

It's 3.1 L...  Which is 3.3 QT...

[Moto-Brian]

I should have used different words in my post, but your post comes across as fairly offensive. You don't know my pedigree, but because of that I'd say you should be a bit more polite in your answers.

 

Either way, the oil light and check engine light shouldn't be coming on with less than 800 miles on the bike (and riding it in the break-in period...so definitely not hard miles). They overpumped the tires, they put in too much oil, and they put in about enough fuel to get home and then to work. I'm not going in yelling at them, but I definitely want them to do a check again. If they've skimped or missed on these very basic things, who knows what they did with the rest. I checked the clutch and throttle systems and made sure the chain and such are in good working order, but I shouldn't have to spend $12k to come home and spend 4 hours making sure everything is working correctly.

 

This is basic maintenance that the dealership should have done correctly and obviously did not. Regardless of the fact that they were "close" in most regards, it's still shady maintenance. Riding on sport tires that are 3+lbs over the listed ratings is dangerous...taking a hard corner already puts stress on the edges of the grip patch -- doing so in over-inflated tires could = wreck.

 

 

Well...  Since you have "pedigree", I guess I need to shut the fuck up.  Wow...  30 bikes in 13 years?  Do I get to say how many I've ridden in just the last 5?  Do I?  Huh, huh?  Please?

 

With your extensive experience, thinking 43 pounds is only 3 pounds over is kinda funny.  Maybe someone with more pedigree than myself can tell you why...

 

Have fun blowing your stack up at the dealer.  I am sure that we will get another thread as to why they are assholes for not helping you out...  If it were me, I'd clutch that fucker at 14k and launch it through the front display window and shout at the top of my lungs "PEDIGREEEEEEEEEEE BITCHES"!!!  At least the security cam will be shown on YouTube and you can show all your bros how bad ass you are.

[Moto-Brian]

Crazy, I realize it was advice, but it was also out of context and he responded to a few things that I didn't even say. Saying I should "educate myself" assumes that I'm uneducated in the matter.

 

 

As for expecting a certain level of quality, unless something has changed in the near past...it is, of course, a common belief that a dealership at least tests something before they sell it if they've purchased it used from someone. Why? Because if they never tested it they wouldn't even know how it performed. If they didn't know how it performed, they wouldn't buy it.

 

 

I'm not saying they went through a few days of testing on the bike...just that when the guy traded it in they would have *had* to at least run it through a few tests if they were, in the least, competent. If you've ever seen a dealership that buys things without testing them, I'd like to know where it is so I can trade in 10 junkyard bikes.

 

 

Dude, it has been YEARS where dealers are buying bikes at auction and then selling them fast.  Or they trade them in and if they look good, start up, rev fine and pass very minimal and cost effective tests, they get slapped on the floor.  And you are ill educated.  You're talking a servo and ECU thinking they are related.  The servo goes bad and the secondary (Do you even know what a STVA is?) butterflies are not working properly which are used for cold starts.  The ECU makes the servo work at start up.  There are VERY few Japanese ECUs that go bad on today's bikes.  VERY few.  

 

Also, there is a way to read the codes at start up.  The dealer can plug in and can tell instantly if the servo is bad.  However, sometimes, the code doesn't get thrown and will show to be fine.  However, the engine light is indicating there is an issue.  Could be something simple or it could be major.  Whatever the case, it has nothing to do with what the dealer did or didn't do...

[Gixxus Christ!]

I tried to give the guy good advice....

[BDBGoalie]

If it were me, I'd clutch that fucker at 14k and launch it through the front display window and shout at the top of my lungs "PEDIGREEEEEEEEEEE BITCHES"!!!

 

[BDBGoalie]

As for expecting a certain level of quality, unless something has changed in the near past...it is, of course, a common belief that a dealership at least tests something before they sell it if they've purchased it used from someone. Why? Because if they never tested it they wouldn't even know how it performed. If they didn't know how it performed, they wouldn't buy it.

 

 

I'm not saying they went through a few days of testing on the bike...just that when the guy traded it in they would have *had* to at least run it through a few tests if they were, in the least, competent. If you've ever seen a dealership that buys things without testing them, I'd like to know where it is so I can trade in 10 junkyard bikes.

 

Not true. A simple test ride to confirm it rides well enough that someone won't notice anything wrong is all it takes. Service time costs money. Unless it NEEDS something done they won't fix/test anything they don't have to. Always assume that they have done nothing and a drunken monkey looked over the bike before they took it.

[hotleadsingerguy]

Dude, it has been YEARS where dealers are buying bikes at auction and then selling them fast.  Or they trade them in and if they look good, start up, rev fine and pass very minimal and cost effective tests, they get slapped on the floor.  And you are ill educated.  You're talking a servo and ECU thinking they are related.  The servo goes bad and the secondary (Do you even know what a STVA is?) butterflies are not working properly which are used for cold starts.  The ECU makes the servo work at start up.  There are VERY few Japanese ECUs that go bad on today's bikes.  VERY few.  

 

Also, there is a way to read the codes at start up.  The dealer can plug in and can tell instantly if the servo is bad.  However, sometimes, the code doesn't get thrown and will show to be fine.  However, the engine light is indicating there is an issue.  Could be something simple or it could be major.  Whatever the case, it has nothing to do with what the dealer did or didn't do...

 

http://zx6r.com/zx6r/36037-2013-636-problems.html

 

Try re-reading the post. The issue with the servo/STVA is what I believe is causing the error code (and therefore the check engine light), but the cold-start stalling is the ECU mis-handling the choke. The above post is what buyers of the 2013 ZX6R are being told (that they don't have the diagnostics software working for the 2013 model yet), and the below post shows that there's a partial recall for the ECU module:

 

http://zx6r.com/zx6r/38150-2013-zx6r-issue-s-18.html

 

 

 

Beyond all of that, I never said the check engine light had *ANYTHING* to do with what the dealership did in prep-work. Again, if you actually read the post you'll see that I attributed only the initial fuel and oil levels to the dealership. I said that if they missed that stuff than I don't trust they didn't miss anything else, but I specifically listed the issues with the ECU and servo or butterfly as manufacturer defects.

 

 

And yes, 43lbs is only 3lbs over. Never did I say "it's 3lbs more than I want" -- I said it's 3lbs over the listed tire pressure. I ride exactly 0.5lbs under the listed pressure in both front and rear. Considering the rear tire is listed at 40lbs...43lbs is 3lbs over the listed pressure.

 

 

 

All in all, keep thinking you're the information-giving master of the forum. It means nothing when you haven't taken the time to learn reading comprehension. Think what you want...You still responded to questions that I never asked, assumed answers to questions that I never brought up, and therefore assumed my pedigree. I don't really care if you own 5 dealerships worth of bikes...there's absolutely no reason to act like an *** when I've given no prompting for it.

 

I know what I'm talking about when I brought up the issues...the problem is you didn't take the time to even read what I wrote and the parts you did read you mis-understood. Just because I discussed multiple issues doesn't mean they're all interconnected.

[hotleadsingerguy]

To sum up:

 

 

Issue #1: The butterfly valve is working correctly, but the ECU cannot detect its position because the sensor is most-likely defective. This causes the check engine light because it thinks the valve is busted, when in reality it's just the sensor.

 

Issue #2: Engine stalls multiple times with a cold-start. Most-likely cause, according to Kawasaki, is the ECU needs either reflashed or replaced. The software in the version that was installed in production is faulty and mis-handles the choke on cold-starts.

 

Dealership issues: Very little fuel after purchase (not a necessity, but still common practice), filled with too much oil, too much pressure in tires. These were all things that were/should have been performed during prep-work.

 

 

These are all *SEPARATE* issues, only the last of which was caused by the dealership. The last issue I'll bring to the attention of the dealership tomorrow. They will all, however, be fixed at a different dealership with a more competent service department.

[hotleadsingerguy]

Not true. A simple test ride to confirm it rides well enough that someone won't notice anything wrong is all it takes. Service time costs money. Unless it NEEDS something done they won't fix/test anything they don't have to. Always assume that they have done nothing and a drunken monkey looked over the bike before they took it.

 

I understand that, but after the ride home the clutch was bad enough that I couldn't get it above 15mph. I had to truck it to the dealership to replace the clutch pack. If they even rode it to the end of the street and back (quarter-mile, at most) they would have noticed it.

 

Maybe they just started it up and made sure it ran, but that's still pretty ridiculous. Especially with the way that most sportbikes are treated, it should have been looked at at least 5 minutes more. It only had one owner and he traded it in at that dealership for (of course) a Hayabusa after owning it for a year.

[Gixxus Christ!]

I give him a week, two weeks tops. Tried to tell him....

Hey chad Kroger. Desmo is a professional, been in the industry for years and has worked for ktm and Ducati to name a few. I'd show him the respect his pedigree commands, especially if you can't do something as simple and basic as replace a clutch. You aren't doing yourself any favors here acting like a douche.

[Pokey]

I sure don't give a shit, there is my 2 cents.

[hotleadsingerguy]

I give him a week, two weeks tops. Tried to tell him....

Hey chad Kroger. Desmo is a professional, been in the industry for years and has worked for ktm and Ducati to name a few. I'd show him the respect his pedigree commands, especially if you can't do something as simple and basic as replace a clutch. You aren't doing yourself any favors here acting like a douche.

 

 

What are you talking about? Who said I couldn't replace a clutch? I've replaced clutches on bikes before, as well as cars.

They did the work because for $100 total they replaced it for me. That was cheaper than the clutch pack itself was. It wasn't a "here's a free clutch pack, but we can install it for $100"...it was either I buy one brand new (which, at the time, was around $130) and do it myself, or give them $100 and have them do it. I mentioned that part in literally the first post of the topic. 

 

Again, just like I said in my post, I don't care if he builds bikes by hand by metal-working pieces together. His history in the motorcycle industry doesn't mean all his attitude is acceptable. He still came into the topic giving me **** for things I didn't even say or do without even doing the research to understand what I was saying. Considering Kawasaki has already announced a partial recall in parts of the world for one of the exact problems I'm having and multiple people that were having the other issue I'm having have had it fixed in a certain way...I have a pretty good idea what needs done.

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I'm assuming you meant Chad Kroeger, the lead singer from Nickelback. Clever.

Edited August 26, 2013 by hotleadsingerguy