Blitz

Cleaned carbs = cylinder loss?

24 posts in this topic

Recently took my 97 ZX6r to Iron Pony to have them clean and sync my carbs.

After taking them apart, they said the screw that adjusts and affects the low end of the throttle (initial throttle on) was locked up. They said I could let them try to drill it out, but that might require new carbs if it doesn't work. I said leave it and just do the best they could to sync it as is. So when I picked it up from them they said they opened one carb more to compensate for the other one (whatever that means....maybe one of you guys can tell me). So today during rapid deceleration into a corner and then full acceleration out of it it sounded like I lost a cylinder and had a ton of power loss. It literally sounded and felt like I was on three cylinders.

On the way home (maybe 30-40 miles later) it started running right again. Anyone have any idea what that might be? The crazy carb fix fouling a plug?

Can a plug foul, and then become un-fouled?

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They should have just left it alone I rode with you last year and your bike ran good. I have had plugs in my tractor stop firing and then start firing again after the plug cooled down. It could be getting too much fuel now in 1 bank causing it to foul the plug.

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Yeah.....if whatever they did caused it to start fouling plugs I'm gonna be pissed.

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I would be pissed too our bikes have a carb for each cylinder that doesnt cross over to other cylinders IDK why the would adjust one up to compensate for another cylinder not getting all the fuel it needs that just drowns out the cylinder the cylinder that died is probably the one they adjusted to compensate for the one they couldn't adjust

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agreed, clueless carb tech.

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I believe i have heard more then a few issues with IP service dept. Sounds like there is a chance someone is trying to create problems to get more business, maybe that thought is out of place, but I have heard from several people after they took their bikes into IP to have them looked at that have more issues after

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Well if that's the case, I'm a customer that won't rest if I've been screwed over.

I'm going to find out exactly what they did and see if that's what caused the problem or not. If its their fault, they're going to fix it.

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sounds more like that cyl wasn't getting fuel. probably still a dirty carb issue. the jets in the carbs are very finicky. getting them clean usually means replacing them instead.

it's going to be very hard to solve a issue that is intermittent.

usually adjusting the synch will not effect the way the bike runs beyond idle. so IDK what they did beyond a synch that would cause you that kind of issue.

I know you live in columbus but if you really need to, I know of a bike shop that could fix it. the dude is a god when it comes to carb tuning. he knew right away what was wrong with my buddy's suzuki intruder when it was back firing. he popped in a new secondary (or something like that) jet and viola...perfect running bike again. even though it was clean looking he said he guarantee's that's the problem and he was right.

Edited by serpentracer
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A friend of mine has a late 90's zx9 or whatever it is. He recently cleaned his carbs. After putting it back together it ran for a second then started to sputter. He gave it some gas and it started to idle real rough. He hasn't figured it out yet but my point is the old ninjas seem to be touchy when it comes to the carbs.

Edited by cOoTeR
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After taking them apart, they said the screw that adjusts and affects the low end of the throttle (initial throttle on) was locked up. They said I could let them try to drill it out, but that might require new carbs if it doesn't work.

The only way it would require new carbs is if the screwed up by drilling too deep or got off the brass screw. If they don't feel comfortable offering the service then they shouldn't be offering it. It doesn't take a NASA engineer to drill a mixture screw but you have to know what you're doing.

I said leave it and just do the best they could to sync it as is. So when I picked it up from them they said they opened one carb more to compensate for the other one (whatever that means....maybe one of you guys can tell me).

I have no idea why they did this. Like was stated previously you have 1 carb per cylinder and they don't cross flow to adjacent cylinders. Clearly you didn't have a NASA engineer working on your bike.

When carb jets are dirty or clogged they simply need cleaned and nothing more. You can replace them with new ones but that would be the same as replacing your car windows because you can't see out of them due to them being dirty. Remeber though, if the jet is dirty then you have to assumethe entire passageway the fuel flows through is dirty as well and you have to clean the whole thing or you'll be back at the same problem.

All carbs work by the same principles so every bit of kowledge of ZX6R carbs is transferrable to GSXR carbs. The following link will explain in detail how to clean carbs:

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159718

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Its hard to find a tech these days that actually knows carbs. Dude clearly doesn't know his shit. Any mechanic worth his salt should be able to free up a brass screw in an aluminum housing, they don't corrode like steel. Mail your carbs to isacs papa, he's a pro. I'd do them for you, and am more than capable of the job, but I stopped buying carburated sport bikes for a reason: I end up having to do carbs on them.

Figure out which cyl isn't firing, next time it does it open the bowl drain on that carb and see if gas comes out. Pull the plug and test it. At least look at it and see if the porcelain has build up on it, that will indicated a rich condition.

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Recently took my 97 ZX6r to Iron Pony to have them

^ There's your problem.

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I'm surprised they even serviced it... I thought 7yrs old was the max they would work on?

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I called them today, but didn't get many answers. The tech that worked on my bike wasn't there but will be tomorrow. So I'm going to call back.

I will say the manager I spoke with (I think he's a manager) seemed concerned and acknowledged that it shouldn't be doing what it did, and if it was something they did....he seemed to say they'd figure it out.

So I'm going to find out exactly what was done. I'll post that as soon as I find out. And I'll also post what they do to rectify the situation (if anything).

I appreciate the offers for other people to work on it. Wish I would have known about them before I took it to them. Now that I've spent the money I really can't afford to spend it again, but if they messed something up I'll demand a refund and take it somewhere else. We'll see how far that gets me.

Up to this point it seems they're willing to work with me to find out what the problem is. In the past when I had an issue with a repair they did (went down one tooth on front sprocket and it was rubbing the chain guard and they gave it back to me even though it was whining at speed), they replaced the sprocket with stock sprocket free of charge. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt if they're going to work with me.

As for them working on my bike, I can say they're one of the only places I've found that will. Another reason I took it there.

Lastly, the bike is running now albeit a little rougher than before. I plan to take it apart and change the plugs before the Epic Ride this weekend. If I have this problem again, I'm going to drop it off at IP and demand they fix it right.....or demand my money back. I've never had any issues like this before they touched it. If it does it again, it's their fault without a doubt. Hopefully they'll do as they've done in the past and work with me to get it right.

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Let them try to make it right, but the more I learn from working on the XR100, the more brave I start to feel about working on a bike with four times as many carburetors...

Youtube is your friend. Last night I spent 2 minutes searching, and 5 minutes learning how to sync carbs. Doesn't look that tough.

Everything is hardest the first time you try it. I cleaned the XR carb, and it took an hour (with gas spilled all over my work bench...). When I opened it back up to change the jets and needle, I had done more work than the first time, with a third of the time spent.

Plus now that's one more thing I know how to do... The time spent learning a little online is worth way more than paying a mechanic who may or may not screw it up anyway.

And consider Pauly or Hoblick in the future. They don't have nearly the mark-up of larger shops, and their reputations are important to them among ORDN members.

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okay I'm sorry I can't figure out how to post a new threadbut it seems like you're having similar problems to mine. I'm new to working on motorcycles and today I went to take my 400 bandit out to find out that my 3rd cylinder has stopped firing again. now I change the spark plug in it about 2 weeks ago and that seemed to do the job but all the spark plugs I pulled out were very wet. however this time around the bottom of my third carburetor seems to be wet with what looks like dirty gasoline or oil now. I know it's very strange for oil to be on a carburetor I get this but what do you guys think is my problem?

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okay I'm sorry I can't figure out how to post a new threadbut it seems like you're having similar problems to mine. I'm new to working on motorcycles and today I went to take my 400 bandit out to find out that my 3rd cylinder has stopped firing again. now I change the spark plug in it about 2 weeks ago and that seemed to do the job but all the spark plugs I pulled out were very wet. however this time around the bottom of my third carburetor seems to be wet with what looks like dirty gasoline or oil now. I know it's very strange for oil to be on a carburetor I get this but what do you guys think is my problem?

Is there oil on the plugs or is it just wet from gas? If its just wet from gas more than likely the float is stuck in the carb. A stuck float will also cause the carb to be wet it kinda looks like oil when there is dirt on it

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okay I'm sorry I can't figure out how to post a new threadbut it seems like you're having similar problems to mine. I'm new to working on motorcycles and today I went to take my 400 bandit out to find out that my 3rd cylinder has stopped firing again. now I change the spark plug in it about 2 weeks ago and that seemed to do the job but all the spark plugs I pulled out were very wet. however this time around the bottom of my third carburetor seems to be wet with what looks like dirty gasoline or oil now. I know it's very strange for oil to be on a carburetor I get this but what do you guys think is my problem?

Without looking at it or tearing it apart I would venture to guess that your #3 carb has a sticking float needle. It might have a small piece of debris holding it open and this allows fuel to constantly flow into the carb. When the float bowl gets full it pushes out of the carb. What you're seeing is a result of that.

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So here's what it was....

I replaced the plugs on Wednesday and rode to work. Was definitely still running rough, though not as bad. Then on the way home it was like I only had three cylinders. Sounded like a 4 stroke dirt bike. I checked the plugs again and out the old ones back in thinking it was the new plugs since it was running better before I out the new ones in. Nope. Still running like shit.

So I called the Pony. Shawn told me to bring it in and they'd look at it. But I didn't expect much. I told him I really needed them to look at it ASAP, cause I had the Epic ride this weekend. He said they would check it out first thing. I figured they'd just say "nothing we can do about it."

So dropped it off today, and called them at lunch. Shawn said they had it apart and thought they knew what the deal was. I stopped by afterwork and they had it fixed. Turns out the jet kit that was installed by previous owner had these little sleeves that go in the emulsion tubes that have 4 little holes drilled into one side. If the sleeves are pointing the wrong way, they don't allow fuel to get into the chamber. He said one of them was turned around backwards. That's what was not allowing the cylinder to fire. No gas.

So Bill handed me the 4 little brass sleeves and said she's running great now. I rode her home and it was much better. Then I put the new plugs back in and it's running like a champ. Smooth acceleration, not any hiccuping or burping or backfiring like before. Best its ever run.

Kudos to Iron Pony for standing behind their work. That's twice now they've taken my bike back and made sure it was right. The fact that they work on older bikes and they stand behind their work will keep me coming there. At least till they don't. Plus they're almost half the price on some quotes I've gotten from the John Hinderer Honda Powerstore.

So after a week of messing around with it, 1 ruined ride, and three days in a row of changing out my spark plugs, it's running like a champ and I'll be ready to go in the morning for the ride. Should be Epic!

Edited by Blitz
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Fair enough. No mechanic will always catch freelance mods and odd parts.

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200 miles today and it was sooooo smooth and fast. I didn't know what I was missing. That's what I was hoping for when I took it there to have the carbs cleaned and synced.

She's a happy Kwakker.

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It literally sounded and felt like I was on three cylinders.

You say that as if it's a bad thing :D

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You say that as if it's a bad thing :D

Haha....unfortunately they weren't 225cc a piece.

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